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European Bank Runs Start Monday

by James Denison / March 17, 2013 6:08 AM PDT
10% theft of all deposits in Cyprus by European finance ministers. Remember, Cyprus is an "offshore" haven for tax dodgers and money launderers. The Marshal Gittler mentioned in article is whistling past the graveyard this weekend. Of course he's worried, being in FOREX (foreign exchange of currencies). So, who can you trust? Not the bankers, that's for sure.

"The decision by the euro zone to
force bank depositors in Cyprus to contribute towards a bailout, a first
in the euro zone debt crisis, could hurt other peripheral nations, the
euro and the global stock market rally, analysts warned.
The decision shocked many, including Sharon Bowles, chair of the
European parliament's economic and monetary affairs committee, who
called it a "disaster" for European Union rules and the single market. Euro zone finance ministers forced Cyprus' savers to pay as much as 10 percent of their deposits to help pay for a bailout of the country's troubled banking sector ,
a move which is expected to raise 5.8 billion euros. In return, the
country will get 10 billion euros ($13 billion) in assistance. The New York Times reported on Saturday that savers had already been trying to withdraw money from banks via ATMs and that many machines had run out of cash .
But it might be too late already. Cyprus has declared a bank holiday on
Monday to prevent such a run on the banks and banned electronic
transfers. "
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Not 10%.
by Kees_B Forum moderator / March 17, 2013 6:21 AM PDT

6.75% for deposits less than 100,000 euro (130,000 dollar). 9.9% for larger deposits.
But the Cypriotic politicians might a bankrupt and an exit from the euro-zone above this bailout.


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A month earlier, they Lied.
by James Denison / March 17, 2013 6:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Not 10%.
The Big European Lie. Look for more to come!
What can we learn from this? Believe the rumors, not the bankers.

"Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:06 AM EST
BRUSSELS (AP) -- For a second day
in a row, the European Union's top financial official sought Tuesday to
quash speculation that private bank depositors in Cyprus might be
forced to take losses as part of a bailout deal — a suggestion that's
fueled fears of large-scale withdrawals from the country's troubled

The new head of the euro area's 17 finance ministers stoked concerns
Monday about the security of uninsured private deposits in Cyprus when
he declined to rule out such a step following repeated questions from
reporters. Instead, Eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who is also the
Dutch finance minister, said the matter had not been discussed at the
meeting he'd just chaired — his first.

Olli Rehn, the EU's monetary affairs commission, stepped in then to
say that the European Commission, the union's executive arm, was not
working on any such proposal.

On Tuesday, following a meeting of all 27 EU finance ministers, Rehn repeated that and then went a step further.

Even though private creditors
were forced to take losses as part of a deal to bail out Greece, Rehn
noted that the Commission had said at the time that such a step would
not be repeated — and that, he said, remains the Commission's position."
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I hope you dumped ALL your bank stock.
by JP Bill / March 17, 2013 6:40 AM PDT

Since they're ALL liars.

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Re: they lied
by Kees_B Forum moderator / March 17, 2013 6:54 AM PDT

There's not one banker in the story. Only Jeroen Dijsselbloem, Olli Rehn and Vassis Shiarly. Non of them are bankers. All three are politicians. And yes, in financial matters, it's allowed to not speak the full thruth for politicians, to limit the damage financial markets can do (like "No, we are not going to devaluate").

The only bank employee in the story, a financial analyst of the Dutch Rabobank is quoted as saying "Uncertainty over the exact form of Cyprus' bailout will continue to hang over markets in the coming weeks". I don't think you can call that a lie.

What did you intend to say?


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What silliness, LOL!
by James Denison / March 17, 2013 7:02 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: they lied

Keep telling yourself that none of these are "bankers". You probably think the Federal Reserve here in the US isn't a bank either.

Sharon Bowles, chair of the European parliament's economic and monetary affairs committee

Euro zone finance ministers forced Cyprus' savers

give depositors shares in the banks

head of global forex strategy

Cyprus has declared a bank holiday on Monday

exchange of this levy with shares in the banking institutions

European Union's top financial official

euro area's 17 finance ministers

27 EU finance ministers

Cypriot finance minister, Vassos Shiarly

the so-called troika of international lenders — the Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund

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Re: bankers
by Kees_B Forum moderator / March 17, 2013 7:09 AM PDT
In reply to: What silliness, LOL!

The equivalent of the Federal Reserve is the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, Germany. Mario Daghi, the Italian head, can be considered a banker. But he doesn't figure in the story.

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, our socialist minister of Finance, really isn't a banker. Try google translate to read his official resume at http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/regering/bewindspersonen/jeroen-dijsselbloem/cv


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those who control the banks
by James Denison / March 17, 2013 7:29 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: bankers

are part of the banking system, therefore can be called "bankers".

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Re: control
by Kees_B Forum moderator / March 17, 2013 8:04 AM PDT

They don't control the banks, they control the bailout operation.

And that bailout operation includes the measure that the Cypriotic government lets the depositors pay an extra tax (6.5% of their deposit). No role for the banks except transferring that money to the Cypriotic government under Cypriotic law.

Still no banker in the story.


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ah, how you forget history
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 2:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: control

and fail to understand financial matters. Look back in history. Who issued money? It was the banks. Now we have the govts themselves issue the money. Who do they issue it through? The banks. The only thing that's been done is separate the issuance of money or "bank notes" to be done by govt and it goes directly to the same banks to then lend out. It's all the same thing as before, just now there's a left and right hand at work instead of just one hand doing it all. It's all part of the "banking system". And what are they worried the most about? Depositors? No, the banks themselves.

Anyway, this is the beginning of the end for Europe's economy in short order, soon as all the bank runs happen, then they shut down the banks for "holidays" and limit withdrawals, it will be the death knell for freezing the economies of Europe and causing the collapse.

Here's an interesting article about it.

We like to think we are smarter than those who experienced terrible economic times in the past, but in truth we are just more arrogant in our ignorance of what's about to happen.

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I thought that it was all the government's fault
by Diana Forum moderator / March 18, 2013 2:54 AM PDT

because they forced the banks to make all those bad loans.


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(NT) We are talking about Europe, not USA.
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 3:16 AM PDT
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Ah, the International Monetary Fund, that famous *European*
by Ziks511 / March 17, 2013 10:58 PM PDT
In reply to: What silliness, LOL!

institution based in New York notorious for messing in economies around the world.

Bankers like everyone else you've mentioned are wedded to their own self interest and their own prejudices against gentle corrective members and toward vicious austerity imposed on others to their own benefit. Purtanism in the financial markets is just as inhumane as it is in religion.


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the article mentioned International Monetary Fund
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 2:36 AM PDT

not me.

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Agreed. When Pres. Nixon acted on inflation
by drpruner / March 25, 2013 3:22 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: they lied

by instituting price controls there were complaints about the surprise of it. I was never a Nixon fan, but I can't see any other way of handling any major money restructuring. And the Cyprus thing is even more sensitive to leaks or perceived leaks.
I do notice commentators from BBC and Reuters saying that the Cypriot leader mishandled it. Of course the perception will be that he was not clumsy but conniving, to give friends time to get their loot out.
Who knows? I got my 17 kroner out, anyway. Happy

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Another baffling Denison post unsupported by his "evidence"
by Ziks511 / March 18, 2013 12:12 AM PDT
Nowhere in the article is the term bank run used, or even hinted at. A sell off of Euro currency is not a Bank Run, it is a currency run, and then only if it reaches damaging proportions. It is easy to destroy a bank, it is hard to destroy a currency.

There is a statement by a senior currency strategist at a French Bank which suggests there may be repercussions for neighbouring nations (called peripheral nations in a possible mistranslation).

"Sebastian Galy, senior currency strategist at Societe Generale warned the levy could unleash a sell-off in the euro (Exchange:EUR=) and the stock and bond markets of peripheral nations on Monday."

You have a National Enquirer/FoxNews knack for misleading and hysterical headers unsupported by any evidence, and unrelieved by any sense of irony or humour which might make them palatable or even useful. Try watching Stephen Colbert to get a sense of what humour, and irony, or even sarcasm are like. There is even a possibility Colbert may be related to Louis XIV's finance minister, which may explain his intelligence.

You may dislike my little rants, Roger, but why don't you respond to these completel fictitious misrepresentations of the facts?


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First, only one country's banks at risk, not all European
by Ziks511 / March 18, 2013 12:25 AM PDT

banks, and second:
"Cyprus has declared a bank holiday on Monday to prevent such a run on the banks and banned electronic transfers." Which seems to rule out a run on the bank.

Then again, if there is a run, it can't start until Tuesday. Can you ever get anything right?


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To be fair ...
by Kees_B Forum moderator / March 18, 2013 12:44 AM PDT
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alternate link to same story
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 2:47 AM PDT
In reply to: To be fair ...
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Ziks, I'm not talking about
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 2:33 AM PDT

a fall in the value of the Euro compared to other currencies. In spite of all your insults, you find yourself riding the wrong horse to your own parade of foolishness.

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The next step in this Cyprus debacle
by James Denison / March 18, 2013 3:29 AM PDT

I believe it will be a call to those who have deposits outside their own countries, especially in the stronger economies like France and Germany, to pull those deposits back into their own countries, or maybe will transfer to US banks. This will be a bank run of a different sort, no long lines seen, just funds flowing quickly out of the satellite European countries to the larger, safer, more economically sound European countries. The result, although it might takes months to become apparent, will be collapse of those countries' economies, which basically means an economic rotteness around the edges of the European Common Market which will also begin to affect the center stronger countries too, but somewhat later.

Of course the bigger concern to me and most on this forum is what happens then in the US in reaction to these events. I suspect some form of "bailout" from US govt toward Europe. Exactly how that bailout would appear, the steps taken, what becomes affected the most economically, is not so apparent, yet.

Big money, smart money, is probably already flowing out of the satellite European countries even today.

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Looks like they're not going to commit theft
by JP Bill / March 20, 2013 5:12 AM PDT
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by TONI H / March 20, 2013 8:06 AM PDT

has offered to bail them out in exchange for drilling rights in the country for natural gas.

Here's a novel idea..........why not have the country drill for THEMSELVES and use the profits from selling the gas to get themselves out of debt? Maybe the IMF would lend them the money to drill...........if BO and the EPA/Environmentalists don't put the kabash on it.

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They have decided to commit theft
by TONI H / March 25, 2013 9:19 AM PDT

With an agreement from the Euro Bank and the IMF for a $16B loan, Cypress will be also taking 40% or more from their people's bank accounts that hold more than $130,000 since anything above that amount isn't insured. If Russia has the kind of money in accounts in Cypress that some are speculating are massive amounts, then Russia and Cypress's people are the losers in the deal. All banks in Cypress are going to stay closed 'at least until Thursday'........yeah, right. I can see people burning the places down before then.

Government theft with global approval? Will there now be a run on the banks elsewhere because people will realize governments aren't to be trusted?


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RE: Will there now be a run on the banks
by JP Bill / March 25, 2013 12:07 PM PDT
Will there now be a run on the banks elsewhere because people will realize governments aren't to be trusted?

If YOU still have money in American banks under Obama...there will NEVER be a run on the banks, IF all it takes is "no trust in government" to create a run on the banks.
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what it might mean
by James Denison / March 25, 2013 3:00 PM PDT

is most conservatives will have taken precautions to avoid loss when Obama does an FDR on our banks here.

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That Is Stunning News!!!
by James Denison / March 25, 2013 3:11 PM PDT

What this says to all wealthy people with money in a bank is to "Get It Out Now!"

I can hardly believe they pulled an even stupider stunt than they'd already planned on doing before this. I know they think this will only hurt the "rich" but this is more like eating half the goose with the golden eggs instead. Still, it's not much worse than the value reduction of the dollar during the FDR administration, which turned the recession into the Great Depression.

This will reverberate around the world and the effects may take some time but they will be widespread. They will try and sell the world the concept that it's just in this one country and won't have any impact on others, but we can see it already will impact many in Russia too. A struck match is not by itself a mighty fire, but if fuel is laying all around it, soon there can be a raging inferno, and the fuel today is the financial mess and fiat money all over the world.

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So nothing appears to have happened, "So how's that workin'
by Ziks511 / March 24, 2013 3:18 PM PDT

out fer ya?? The German banks had decided that they didn't want to bail out the favourite Bank for Russian Mob money which makes up 30% of deposits in Cypriot Banks. Cypriote Banks are still fighting to work out a different 6 Billion Dollar Solution, but I still haven't heard of catastrophic bank runs being made on any other European Banks as James predicted.

Looks like it was "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Shakespeare


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Perhaps the idiot in the room is you
by TONI H / March 24, 2013 10:46 PM PDT

Did you take into consideration that the reason there was no run on any banks in Europe yet is for a couple of reason.........

1. Cypress closed all banking the entire week to avoid that situation

2. Cypress may be thrown out of the EU group (which might not be a bad thing for them to go back to their own currency since the EU is a joke that the US was smart enough NOT to join when they were pressured to do so)

3. Russia has indicated they would bail them out in exchange for natural gas rights on the entire island (another joke since they were protecting their own cash in Cypress banks from being confiscated by the Cypress government)

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RE: Perhaps the idiot in the room is you
by JP Bill / March 24, 2013 11:23 PM PDT

Who said this?

would like some discussion about it without the sarcasm, insults, derogatory remarks that normally comes into play

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sure isn't you
by TONI H / March 24, 2013 11:44 PM PDT

however, I was responding to the derisive statement made by Ziks........

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