Spyware, Viruses, & Security

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DVD ships with rootkit. The lesson was not learned.

by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 15, 2006 12:31 AM PST
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Part of the plan?
by fondy / February 16, 2006 8:58 PM PST

I can't help but wonder if the ultimate goal of the RIAA/MPAA is to keep their products out of computers altogether.
This rootkit is a double-edged sword. One the one hand, the content owner gets some bad PR for using malicious techniques to protect his content, but on the other hand, think about how many potential pirates are stopped because everyone is afraid to load the CD/DVD into a computer. Meanwhile, if the disc will still work in a conventional player, then it's 'no harm no foul' as far as the industry is concerned.
Fearmongering > DRM?

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The other problem is it stops some games from working.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 16, 2006 9:38 PM PST
In reply to: Part of the plan?

I don't have a clear view or clean case on this one yet but it appears the rootkit can cause some PC games (which have copyprotection) to fail to run.

You can imagine how upsetting it is for some to play a DVD then their 50 dollar games no longer function. It's also not funny that they may not know what's going on and may end up at some service desk which will also know nothing about this and reload the OS onto the machine.

The consumer loses all around on this one.

Bob

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DRM again?
by Candya / December 3, 2008 4:13 AM PST

Great and here i figured the one company had a taste of enough P.O'ed customers. I havent read the article in this chat but I take it ... Well actually from what ive heard so far in this blog it might be my issue to a degree. I dont know how many DVD games I have bought that dont work quite right in this machine. Another one has been tormented beyond belief my brand new tower has gone downright stupid. DVD-rw drive has gone screwy. So what company should I have to blame for this? I went nuts in store doing mini protests over the Sony Ordeal. Sure the store workers didnt like it. And I was like WHAT?? What and im supposed to be happy about companys' ability to steal my info yet im not allowed to steal from them? They can down right ruin my bank account and any other thing in my machine threw their rootkits. But im not allowed to play a game or movie in my machine without a massive computer black out? And yet I still get stuck buying cruddy movies and cruddy games that arent worth the money nor worth the suffering. Until you stop selling Im not gonna stop whineing til everyone in this store hears about it. Ive heard about the sueings going on companys/college/other dude vs. Sony. Sony should rott. I havent bought sony since the big stink unless I happened to get a money dont by them.

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This Thread Is 2 1/2 Years Old
by Grif Thomas Forum moderator / December 3, 2008 5:12 AM PST
In reply to: DRM again?

This thread IS about an old issue.. Did you check the date on the thread?

Hope this helps.

Grif

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Keep the game out of computers??
by pearl298 / February 16, 2006 11:39 PM PST
In reply to: Part of the plan?

If that is thrie goal then they also need to keep it out of today's CD/DVD players which all have computers to run them!

The owner's manual in my new Camry warns against trying to play ''copy protected'' CDs in the stock CD/Radio player.

The problems introduced may be more subtle, but you can't just reboot and reload you car radio!

The fundamental problem is unexpected bugs - have YOU ever seen ANY software with none?

Ask Airbus about the first A310 ''fly by wire'' that flew into the ground at the Paris Airshow a few years back.

NOw remember that the average car today has more than 20 computers on board ...

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From memory a certain BMW has 64 ...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 16, 2006 11:43 PM PST

Albeit very small computers (microprocessors), the move to embedded computing makes for some very nice operations.

Bob

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Audio and Video DRM
by Mark Krogstad / February 16, 2006 9:51 PM PST

The executives that run these corporations must be tech illiderate. Anyone with a couple of working brain cells can use a patch cord and a recorder program to copy music from CD (even the most protected disk on sale) It may take longer but it works. Video DVD's whether standard or high def will be copied (even with Trusted Computing's Corporate Dictator Chip and software [Seig Hiel!]) When I BUY something out of the store I OWN it. I will use it on devices or form I OWN. Licensing IS B.S. Yes our elected corporate prostitutes will past laws for the corp. dictator wana be's, but until there is a Total Surveillance Police State (coming with RFID) it is so much words on paper.

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Audio and Video DRM
by Mark Krogstad / February 16, 2006 9:54 PM PST

The executives that run these corporations must be tech illiderate. Anyone with a couple of working brain cells can use a patch cord and a recorder program to copy music from CD (even the most protected disk on sale) It may take longer but it works. Video DVD's whether standard or high def will be copied (even with Trusted Computing's Corporate Dictator Chip and software [Seig Hiel!]) When I BUY something out of the store I OWN it. I will use it on devices or form I OWN. Licensing IS B.S. Yes our elected corporate prostitutes will past laws for the corp. dictator wana be's, but until there is a Total Surveillance Police State (coming with RFID) it is so much words on paper.

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It's getting out of hand
by Geek091 / February 16, 2006 10:07 PM PST

RIAA and MPAA are starting to act more and more like the Mafia. They want to get their "take" from the sale of DVD disks, any hardware capable of playing them, any software capable of decoding them, any drive capable of recording them, and any blank recordable disks that might theoretically be used to copy them -- regardless of whether any of these products are actually used for those purposes.

That's not enough for them, though. Now they want to take over your computer, as well.

If you want to play music or watch a movie that you legally paid for (several times over, in the case of a DVD, since you've also paid royalties on the hardware/software used to decode the CSS protection), now they also expect you to compromise your system's security by allowing them to install hidden rootkits that almost inevitably will be used by virus and spyware writers at some point to hide malicious software.

The only recourse I can see is, firstly, to boycott these companies when it's revealed that they are doing this; and secondly, to launch class-action suits against them for costs related to cleaning up computers and recovering data, and for damages related to any downtime, loss of productivity, and so forth that result if and when the vulnerabilities created by their rootkits are exploited by malicious software.

As for Symantec, it's especially despicable when a company that sells security software does something like this. I haven't used any Symantec security software in years, however, because I find that it's bloated, buggy, and generally less effective than other security products available. So I can't boycott them. But it does give me one more reason to steer my clients away from Symantec products.

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Boycott
by RobAlex / February 16, 2006 11:45 PM PST

Supports my decision not to by Norton again. Actually any product from Symantec. Not only will avoid these products but any from companies that do this.

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Love To Boycott
by ghostcatbce / February 17, 2006 8:39 AM PST
In reply to: Boycott

I would love to boycott Symantec. Free apps like Zone Alarm have a far more flexible firewall. Unfortunately, when my dad gave me his old computer, it came with Symantec's Security Suite, and getting it off your computer is a beach.

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Root-kit
by willowthunder / February 17, 2006 2:14 AM PST

I have discovered this rootkit on my computer and have gone to Sony's link to remove it but to no avail. Anyone have any idea how to get this off?
I am totally frustrated at this point.

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here is a self-help guide. Use at your own risk.
by Marianna Schmudlach / February 17, 2006 2:26 AM PST
In reply to: Root-kit
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Sony is at it again, and again, and......
by hawk318 / February 17, 2006 3:00 AM PST

Well most know now about Sony's fiasco with installing their security/protection software into the rootkit of your PC if you ran any of their CD's with the copy protection on it.... and did it without your knowledge!

Well lo'n'behold Sony strikes again with it's owned "Securom" company. After several versions that screwed up various games in the past, several game companies have still decided to install their "protection" software on their games.
The two games I'm referring to in this post is F.E.A.R and Serious Sam 2. Both are great games! Both ran ok.... Well ok until I updated SS2 and tried to play it again.
Now whan I click the games icon the error message "A required Security Module cannot be activated". There is no way to correct this!!
After hours with tech support (email, live chat)and even contacting Securom and running their "testing" program (plus another one they sent me to run not listed on their web site) According to them (all the tech supports) there is nothing wrong with my PC, system, all is up to date, I have no protection circumventing software, nor none of the programs listed on their web site..... Nothing is wrong!
Well other then I now have two games, about $90.00 worth I can't play at all. No un/in stall, deleting registry keys, nothing will allow me to play either game. Securom has completely disabled the ability to play these games I purchased.
The last communication I got two days ago from Securom was "Thanks, we'll foreward this info to our programming dept."

Do a Google search for the error I posted above and you'll find hundreds of posts from every game that has used Securom protection and still game companies are using it!
One European game company is sueing Securom. All problems aside, do they sue because it made some of their games non-playable?.... No!, Because people are still able to copy their games!
Kind of a forget our customers, were being copied attitude.

What are gamers to do? Sue in a class action suit?
Sue the game companies for not being able to play what we purchase?
Boycott? Who?
I'm afraid what it boils down to, is just the fact that Sony once again takes the attitude that it has the God given right to impose whatever it desires upon us all, no matter the problems it may envoke.
They've always taken this attitude (remember all those stuck with beta recorders?)

I for one stopped buying their products years ago after problems with their electronics and their extremely poor customer support. After pursuing problems with a couple of their electronics beyond customer support, I basically got a letter from some exicutive (if I remember correctly one of the VP's of cust. supp.)
The letter more or less said "Sorry you're having problems, we know there was a problem, too bad your the one stuck with it". And in reply to the rudness of the support manager he said "Our support people are the best and if they were rude to you, it was because you were rude to them!"
After not getting any satisfactory response from support I politely asked to speak to a supervisor and when she came on I mentioned the other support person refused to give me the complaint dept. The supervisor refused as well, so I asked for an address and she gave it to me. I thanked her and mailed the complaint.
Thats being rude?

So that brings us to today, Sony hasn't changed at all. First the "root kit" fiasco, now this Securom continous problems (and apparently still haven't gotten it right yet!)

Be polite..., be honest and purchase legal CD's or games and you're still treated like you don't matter, your non Sony owned items are theirs for the tweaking, tampering or just plain damaging, who cares, it isn't their stuff they're playing around with...... It's yours!

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Here's my take.
by mrhex / February 17, 2006 5:55 AM PST

I agree first and foremost that MY fair use rights have been encroached upon when stuff like this happens. When I buy a game or a piece of hardware I can use to however I see fit; short of copying it and giving it to a friend. I have no problem with companies putting stuff like CSS on their DVDs. This prevents casual copying. But a damn rootkit on my computer is just too much.

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WHAT ''fair use rights''???
by pearl298 / February 17, 2006 9:55 AM PST
In reply to: Here's my take.

Unfortunately under the DMCA the only ''right'' you have is to pay the vendor.

You don't even have the right to use the product without the vendor's permission despite paying for it.

Check out www.eff.org for details - THIS is eactly why they are upset.

How long before they screw up the anti-lock braking system on a car because they figure that you tried to listen to a CD on your car radio when they didn't approve?

Porbably farfectched right now, but then so were phishing scams just a few years ago.

Remember when they wanted your SSN on your driver's license to make things so much easier to identify you? Some states even required that - I had to get a special waiver to leave my SSN off my Arizona D/L in 1982!

Obviously only ''good guys'' would want to verify your identity.

Remember when remote control of somewone's computer by a virus or a trojan was farfectched? ...

Sigh.

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