Camcorders

General discussion

Date and time stamp

by sfapi / February 2, 2009 2:11 AM PST

I started using a Sony HDR-SR11 to collect video for criminal and civil court presentation. I need to have the original date and time stamp data on the video when I make a DVD for it to be admissible as evidence. Sony tech support informed me that I need to use editing software like Movie Studio to make this happen. I started using Movie Studio but could not get the date and time stamp to appear. Movie Studio tech support informed me that there is no software that can transfer the date and time stamp. They recommended that I send the video through a "capture device" then into the computer. I have reached the end of my camcorder knowhow. Can anyone please help?

Post a reply
Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: Date and time stamp
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: Date and time stamp
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
Date stamp....
by Papa Echo / February 2, 2009 6:41 AM PST
In reply to: Date and time stamp

How would you like the date stamp to be shown ? On the original videos or only when you make DVD for them ?
Do you want the date stamp shown on the file properties, or show on the cideo itself (i.e.on screen) for the whole length of the footage ?
If you create a DVD of videos and insert a time stamp, it means that some editing has been done - is this acceptable in court ? Have you research other brands ? I seem to remember an old analogue video8 model from SONY with which I was able to create a title for the footage and the date and time which were shown at the beginning of the video ...

Collapse -
date stamp
by sfapi / February 2, 2009 10:23 AM PST
In reply to: Date stamp....

The date stamp must be visible on the entire length of the video. on all originals and copies. I need the date and time code that was collected while videotapeing. It won't be admissible to add a time stamp. The camera collects the information and I can transfer it if I connect to a DVD recorder. This is what I was doing with my 8mm digital camcorder but I'd like to be able to transfer the video with the stamp onto my computer for file storage and email. After speaking with about a half dozen or so tech persons I was finally told by someone that seemed to be well versed with the problem that when the video is transfered to a computer the time stamp data is cleared away. This person recommended useing a capture device.

Collapse -
Is this...
by Papa Echo / February 2, 2009 8:38 PM PST
In reply to: date stamp

...it ? HERE

googled "movie date stamp revealer"

Collapse -
Visual DV Time Stamp (vDTS)
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 3:13 AM PST
In reply to: Is this...

Thanks, I looked at this site and this looks like what I may be looking for. I'll have to look deeper to be sure. Thanks again.

Collapse -
You can add text to a video as "generated media"
by Kiddpeat / February 2, 2009 8:18 AM PST
In reply to: Date and time stamp

in Sony Vegas (Is that what you mean by Movie Studio?). Vegas then generates a file that can be burned to a DVD. However, that is probably not what you want. I suspect that if the camera does not record that data, the video will not pass muster.

Collapse -
Date stamp
by sfapi / February 2, 2009 10:34 AM PST

No, the date stamp cannot be added later. It has to be part of the original video even if no one could tell with the naked eye. In a criminal case or a serious civil case the first thing opposing council would do is attack the credibility of any incriminating video. If the stamp is not part of the original video and was added later it could be removed ( and/or changed) just as easily. Out goes the video. The only thing that will suffice for court is a transfer of the video as it was recorded, with the date stamp.

Collapse -
You add it later. But
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 2, 2009 10:42 PM PST
In reply to: Date and time stamp

For crime scene work the good investigator knows to always include a shot of a watch, clock or such so the date, time is on the video.

The advice is SPOT ON! You don't use a digital transfer but an analog one so you can turn on the date/time overlay and record that.
Bob

Collapse -
Analog transfer
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 1:51 AM PST
In reply to: You add it later. But

So you say to use a capture device also.

Collapse -
Full disclosure.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 1:57 AM PST
In reply to: Analog transfer

I worked on a CCTV digital design and the same issues came up. Even if you had the date/time on the video with the analog capture what VETS that the person with the video camera set the date and time? You can set it to anything you want.

This is why it's a moot point about adding it later or using the analog capture. Both can be discredited.

Fix? When on the scene, ask the officer for a shot of their watch or take continuous shots from some clock tower, other time pieces so they are in the shoot.

Been there, done that.
Bob

Collapse -
Clock Tower
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 3:05 AM PST
In reply to: Full disclosure.

I get what you're saying but even a wristwatch or cellphone time can be changed. The presumption of recorded time is the same however. Its weight as evidence rests with the perceived integrity and credibility of the witness presenting the evidence. Whatever time appears on the video at the time of capture (whether by videotaping a wristwatch or showing the date/time stamp) is presumed to be correct at the time of shooting the video. You can't change the date/time stamp that's recorded as the video is taken, unless in your expertice, you know something a layman like me has no idea of. Anything that is added to the video later is, by definition, an alteration of the evidence. I'm looking for a method that "allows" the recorded date/time stamp to transfer to the computer because it has repeatedly been acceptable proof in legal proceedings of the actual date and time of recording, albeit by stipulation.

Collapse -
This may vary by country and what lawyer, judge you get.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 3:14 AM PST
In reply to: Clock Tower

But time on the video from sources that can be easily changed are usually tossed out by any decent litigator. This is why I shared what the litigators usually will not try to dispatch. Officer's watch, time pieces on the sceen, clock tower then pan back to the scene.

Your choice to debate it but I'll stick with what we learned about this.
Bob

Collapse -
Can the recorded date/time stamp be changed?
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 3:23 AM PST

If so I didn't know it could be. I was led to believe that the date/time stamp was recorded onto the video and although it could be turned off it could not be changed.

Collapse -
Can the recorded date/time stamp be changed?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 3:37 AM PST

"Can the recorded date/time stamp be changed?"

Yup. And it's why the better "documenter" knows to get a shot of timepieces and dates in the video/camera shots.
Bob

Collapse -
What I don't know
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 3:49 AM PST

about modern technology could fill an ocean.

Thank you Bob!

Collapse -
Another poser....
by Papa Echo / February 3, 2009 11:49 AM PST
In reply to: What I don't know

Who is to say that the time-stamp of the recorder is initially correct ? Has it be set, and set correctly ? That stamp can also be changed...what if battery is runnig down ? I can also argue that the detective's watch is inaccurate ... So, back to the clock tower and other "independent" sources of indicated time.....e.g. shadows, sounds, etc.

Collapse -
Bingo.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 11:53 PM PST
In reply to: Another poser....

You've got it right. If it matters and you don't want to be disassembled in public...

Collapse -
Perhaps you would care to explain how a date time
by Kiddpeat / February 3, 2009 5:50 AM PST

imposed by the camera on the video image can easily be changed. It doesn't sound easy to me.

Collapse -
Simple.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 5:52 AM PST

1. We turn off the date/time stamp on the camcorder video out.
2. We run the analog video thru a capture program and...
3. Overlay the date and time with appropriate fuzz and jitter to match each frame.

Hope this helps.

Collapse -
So, not actually changed
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 6:34 AM PST
In reply to: Simple.

just not transferred and a ficticious date/time overlaid. Can someone actually change the recorded date/time stamp?

Collapse -
What recorded time stamp?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 9:20 AM PST

Be specific. Remember I have the tape and control the camcorder so there is no way to stop me from changing the time stamps.

Collapse -
three minutes of video
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 11:51 AM PST

Let's say I have a tape with three minutes of video recorded on it with the date/time stamp feature on. Can you take that tape and change the date/time stamp that appears on the video? I don't mean can you turn off the date/time stamp feature, transfer the video without it and then superimpose your own date/time over the video with editing software.

Collapse -
That's simply turning the time/date off.
by Kiddpeat / February 3, 2009 2:48 PM PST
In reply to: Simple.

It's not changing what the camera records. If you simply turn it off, why go to so much trouble? Just add it in PP.

I didn't think it could be easily changed. I see that I was correct.

Collapse -
PS. The question is not how to change it.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 5:53 AM PST

But how reliable the data and time is. Any decent litigator will disassemble that for you.

Collapse -
Reliability
by sfapi / February 3, 2009 6:40 AM PST

is, again I must insist, a matter of the presenting witnesses perceived integrity. I believe that if testomony and scrutiny of the video discloses that the date/time stamp is that which was transferred from the original video collected then integrity is maintained lending to the witnesses credibility. Can the recorded date/time stamp be changed?

Collapse -
(NT) Exactly. Good choice of words.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 3, 2009 9:21 AM PST
In reply to: Reliability
Collapse -
It cannot easily be changed if the camera records
by Kiddpeat / February 3, 2009 2:52 PM PST
In reply to: Reliability

the data on the video tape. Changing it at that point would be extremely expensive, and changes could be detected.

Collapse -
I believe you
by sfapi / February 4, 2009 8:06 AM PST

are correct and I don't know why the others are avoiding the question. Can the recorded date/time stamp be changed, not turned off or hidden or not transferred, but changed?

Collapse -
Yup.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 4, 2009 8:17 AM PST

There is no way to vet the date/time data on the tape. The date/time on the tape is not in the video section and why you pan from a clock tower, a cop's watch, etc.

I'm betting someone will want a demo of this trick. No, I won't do it again. The tool is proprietary and I can't share it.
Bob

Collapse -
Three minutes of video
by sfapi / February 4, 2009 7:58 AM PST
In reply to: Date and time stamp

Let's say I have a tape with three minutes of video recorded on it with the date/time stamp feature on. Can you take that tape and change the date/time stamp that appears on the video? I don't mean can you turn off the date/time stamp feature, transfer the video without it and then superimpose your own date/time over the video with editing software.

Collapse -
Why edit that version?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 4, 2009 8:20 AM PST
In reply to: Three minutes of video

That's not the original tape. Using the original tape we simply capture it with the camcorder's date/time overlay off and overlay our own. This makes such a snap to do with common tools.

This is why the advice above is not to transfer it digitally but to use an analog capture. It's also impossible to use this as evidence of the date/time the video was taken. The replies above show why.
Bob

Popular Forums
icon
Computer Help 47,885 discussions
icon
Computer Newbies 10,322 discussions
icon
iPhones, iPods, & iPads 3,188 discussions
icon
Security 30,333 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 20,177 discussions
icon
HDTV Picture Setting 1,932 discussions
icon
Phones 15,713 discussions
icon
Windows 7 6,210 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 14,510 discussions

Tech for the holiday

Find recipes for July 4 with these foodie apps

The Fourth of July means fireworks, fun and food. If you're planning on a barbecue this weekend, we've got the apps to help you find holiday-inspired recipes.