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Are Plasma TV going to be discontinued???

by taoque / November 4, 2007 11:52 PM PST

Recently I went to a dealer to buy a HITACHI 42" Plasma HDTV, since it was on sale, however the salesman told me that Plasma TV are going to be discontinued, and recomend me to buy an LCD TV. Is this true?? As far as I know Plasma HDTV are quiet new. But Do you recomend me to buy a Plasma or a LCD HDTV?? Also whats the difference between Plasma 1080P and Plasma 1080I??

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The question is not if but when.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / November 5, 2007 12:12 AM PST

But in my opinion it's a little early to predict when. LCD has a ways to go as well as OLED and other solutions.

Keep shopping.

Bob

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So they kill it.
by ahtoi / November 5, 2007 2:10 AM PST

What different does that make..to me, who own a plasma? This is not like a format or OS being killed.

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First of all...
by stuntman_mike / November 5, 2007 3:08 AM PST

you should be aware that for whatever reason (maybe it's the margins) most salespeople will try to steer you from buying a plasma. I am not sure why, but the things that they will make up o get people to buy LCDs is just despicable.

Plasmas are just as good and in some ways better than LCDs. People would have you believe that plasmas last a year or 2. False. A plasma display has a life of 60,000 hours (over 20 years of 8 hours a day viewing) before it will dim to half brightness. Even if that is an exaggeration and it only lasts half that long you are still looking at over 10yrs of life. Plasmas have no motion blur like LCDs. LCDs have improved greatly in this regard, but it is still there. Not so with Plasma, or most RPTVs. Plasmas have the best black levels of any non CRT TV technology. Again, LCDs have greatly improved in this area, but can't match the best plasmas.

What you had to worry about in the past with plasmas was burn-in. Almost all new plasmas come with some kind of burn-in remedy whether that be pixel orbiting or white test screens that actually burn burn-in off of the set. Even without these new burn-in preventions and remedies, you could still avoid burn-in by properly breaking in the set (I believe it is after the first 400 hours of viewing that burn-in becomes almost a non issue).

As far as recommending a plasma or LCD, that depends on your budget and what screen size you are looking for. A 50" plasma is a lot more affordable than a 46 or 52" LCD, if you are talking about a good LCD.

1080i and 720p are basically the same thing. This tells you how many pixels that a display actually has. In the case of 720p/ 1080i sets, their pixel count ranges from 1280x720 to 1366x768. A 1080p set has many more pixels than a 720p/ 1080i set and can therefore provide better resolution and finer details. A 1080p set has a pixel count of 1920x1080 (in all of the pixel counts that I have listed, the first number is for horizontal and the second is for vertical).

Whether you want a 1080i or 1080p set depends again on your budget, screen size, and how far you plan to sit from the screen.

Btw. Plasma technology is not new. It is actually very old. If I'm not mistaken it was developed in the late 60's early 70's. It has only recently become mainstream as they have been able to make more consumer friendly sizes and prices.

Good luck

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Lol...
by stuntman_mike / November 5, 2007 3:28 AM PST
In reply to: First of all...

there were so many angles of your post to tackle that I forgot to address the main issue. No I don't think that plasmas will be discontinued anytime soon.

Although they are coming out with newer technologies like OLED, it will take quite some time before they reach an affordable level to gain mass appeal. When you consider that an 11" costs about $3000, I think that LCD and plasma will be safe for quite some time.

As much as salespeople try to dissuade customers from buying plasmas, they are still extremely popular, especially in the videophile community. As I mentioned before, they have superior black levels which is crucial for movie watching and also improves color saturation. They also provide video gamers and sports watchers with a flat screen option that has no motion blur. And last but not least, they are much more affordable at sizes of 50" and larger. In fact there are no options of LCDs bigger than 52" right now.

Now having said all that I don't want you to think that I am saying that Plasma is the clear choice. There are a couple of LCDs (the Samsung 52" 71F in particular) that I would say can hold their own with any plasma, even the Pioneer 5080 and 5010's. But the problem with both of those options is the price, especially the Samsung LCD. You are talking in the $4500 range for a 52" set when you could get a very good plasm like the Panasonic 700u series for around $2500.

Without knowing your budget I couldn't really say which way to go.

As far as where I see plasma going, I see them battling with LCDs for at least a few more years. I also see them jumping into the 120hz fray a lot more heavily (there is already at least one plasma that offers 120hz). I think that that is the biggest advantage that LCD has right now and in order for plasma to keep up they will have to follow suit.

If you have never seen a an LCD that implements 120hz exceptionally well like the Samsung 71F series, in person, it can literally be jaw dropping lol.

Btw, I don't own a plasma, so don't think that I am biased for them or against LCDs.

Good luck.

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Screen Size Info Incorrect
by Flatworm / November 9, 2007 9:21 PM PST
In reply to: Lol...

There are MANY LCD sets larger than 52" available. Sony makes their XBR series up to 70 inches ($33K), Sharp has the 65" Aquos LC-65D64U ($8K). Samsung, LG and Sharp have absolutely humongous LCD sets over 100", although I am not sure whether or not these are sold to consumers in the United States. They are VERY expensive, over $100K I believe.

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internet or local sales
by corppsych / November 6, 2007 2:33 AM PST
In reply to: First of all...

Hi Stuntman;
First, thanks for your past insights- I appreciate them.
Okay, now that I've decided on the Pioneer PDP plasma, the big question is:
Given that I'll only buy from an authorized dealer, which is better, buying from an online retailer (lower cost) or a local dealer (taxes, typically higher cost). The concern I have buying from an online dealer is support after delivery. Let's assume it comes undamaged, but 2 weeks into the purchase, the tv malfunctions. Most online guys tell me that after 24 hours, it will go to the mfg warranty and they'll call for a repair at my home. The local stores (e.g., BestBuy) say they'll replace a defective unit within such a short time-frame (I'd have to pick it up or pay for delivery).
You must have a broad swath of experience on this, so please help.
Thanks.

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Everyone has pretty much...
by stuntman_mike / November 6, 2007 5:39 AM PST

wrestled with the dilemma that you are facing. Those online prices are very enticing, but I could not bear the though of getting taken or even if the online store is legit, it is still a hassle to deal with having to ship back a TV if something is wrong even if they will replace it.

I think that happy medium and the best way to go is to find an online retailer that your local Best Buy/ Circuit City/ PC Richard etc will match. The 3 that I mentioned all have the same price match policy. They will match any online store price, provided that the online store also has an actual physical retail store. That rules out most of them but you can still find a few that will have much better prices than the big chains. You might try J&R and Abe's of Maine. I know for a fact that they will match J&R's prices, which are almost always cheaper. I have not tried Abe's but if I am not they have storefront, so they should match. Abe's prices are also a lot cheaper.

You can also try and take advantage of the human element. You would be surprised what you can talk your way into. Depending on the salesperson/ manager you might be able to convince them to match an online price of a store that does not have storefront. I have done it, although this strategy works better at PC Richard than the other two because of the bureaucracy involved with the corporate CC and BB vs the smaller PC.

In any case it can't hurt to ask. Either way, price matching to me is the best option. You get the price you want, or close to it, and you take the fear of dealing with a shady online store out of the equation.

Good luck

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a thing about pricematching
by masterying01 / November 7, 2007 4:19 PM PST

all pricematch policies include fine print that says they will only price match LOCAL competitive b&m stores. at the end of the day, when a store realizes you are ready to spend $3000 somewhere and its just a matter of where you're gonna dump your money, they will do anything to keep your business. now heres the thing.

if you come into the store acting all cocky thinking you're a hotshot for finding it cheaper on the internet and immediately asking for $1200 off a $4000 tv, most places will just laugh at you. they still have a business to run.....and selling something below cost is not a smart thing to do. arguing with the store about their price match policy is even worse. treat others the way you want to be treated.

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I would totally agree
by gabereyes / November 8, 2007 1:48 PM PST

Treat me like you want to be treated, you are buying a TV not a used car at the jerrys used car lot.

all day customers walk in wanting to price match bobsdiscountplasma.com and then once you get a good price for them, they get in there pocket and start looking for something and I know whats coming that d%#m 10% coupon that says in bold letters (MARK DOWNS TAKEN FROM REGULAR RETAIL PRICES) and as soon as you show them this here comes mr. or mrs. nasty, (I want to talk to your manager). and so there goes my good day, Im off to find a manager who doesnt want to deal with an upset customer, and tells me to tell the customer NO for them. if I had the power there would never be coupons, and every store would have the same price.

I believe good service deserves your business not price sence everyone price match's any local store, If I spend 45 minutes to an hour explaining why plasma doesnt leak gas, why constast ratio is not a real stat, how to pick a TV based on black level and color accuracy plus why you should get installation, please give me a chance to sell you a TV, I get really tired of helping people that go somewhere else to buy from some highschool kid that doesnt know anything about electronics and doesnt care about them or you.

So please buy your new TV from someone who knows what they are doing, and seems to have a passion for you and the electronics,if all they talk about is the stats on the tag just walk away most of the time they dont have a clue what makes a good TV.

and yes 90% of customers should buy installation, on any TV over 999.99 its only 50 dollars for basic install, and I have never been to a house that had everything hooked up or setup 100%.

thanks
gabe

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(NT) HDCA FTW
by masterying01 / November 10, 2007 6:19 PM PST
In reply to: I would totally agree
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Pioneer Plasma
by dratner / November 8, 2007 10:51 PM PST

I have just purchased a Pioneer PDP6010FD from DTV City. The picture is exquisite. The black levels knock the socks off of any LCD I have seen at BB. I am thrilled with my purchase and recommend that anyone considering a HDTV, give the Pioneer plasma a look.

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PDP 6010FD
by Kberdetta / November 19, 2007 12:18 AM PST
In reply to: Pioneer Plasma

I have recently (two weeks) purchased and installed the Pioneer pdp6010fd and am equally thrilled. I did a lot of comparrisons and research before the purchase, but was still a little insecure over my decision. I can say that the performance knocked me out right out of the box! I have been toying with it and can't find anything to be sorry for or regretful of. I was a little "guilty" for justifying the price, but I must say it was definatly worth th 5K I spent on it with the tilt mount. I would highly recommentd any of the Pioneer Kuro sets to new purchasers.

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Ok
by ns387241 / November 8, 2007 6:47 AM PST
In reply to: First of all...

very nice post stuntman.
Plasma technology was jointly developed by Pioneer and the University of Illinois in 1973.

as for comments made about image retention, it happens now about as often as LCD's get it, wich they do. LCD manufacturers call it image persistance.

Also I have not yet seen a plasma with 120hz, but I was very disappointed with the XBR4/5 and the 71/81 series with their "motion enhancers". It's one thing to support 120hz for material that is recorded at 120hz, but to boot everything else up to that is just plain dumb. It makes 24fps films look like they've been fast-forwarded. So I hope that does not become a reality.

Plasmas are not going anywhere anytime soon, I agree. I just think that the consumer population's thoughts are still polluted with terrible, untrue myths about plasma televisions. I have a genII Pioneer plasma from 1986 and have had no trouble with burn-in or retention. I will say that I did have all of my sets ISFccc Calibrated after 200 hours of break-in, and I do have all of my sets attached to power isolation circuits with 120V stabalization and battery backup (UPS) via Richard Gray.

As for the comments about glare, I disagree (not you, but putting it out there generally, stuntman). By utilizing a matte or semi-gloss finish, LCD televisions matte their picture, which is one reason why Samsung chose a glossy finish on their screens. That being said, there is a great deal of glare there.

Good Plasmas generally use screen filters that reflect back less light than they take in. The Pioneer KURO, for example, has an 80% screen flter that eliminates the major areas of glare without compriamising the PQ. Other brands, like Panasonic, have chosen to put a chemical coat over the screen to eliminate glare. Not only is this technique ineffective, but it makes the panel look like a high-gain rear projection screen, glitter effect and all. LCD's cannot have a screen filter due to the nature of their design, so I would argue that plasmas would be better for high-lighting conditions.

Also, doesn't anybody remember laptops!? Take them outside on a nice summer day and what happens? You lose the picture. Weren't they using LCD panels for monitors? LCD screens that have matte finishes like laptops will suffer from a similar effect when exposed to sunlight (like a room full of windows).

As for those salespeople, I do believe that those who work non-commission are grossly uninformed, as they are not forced to push one thing over another. At the same time, it is the salesperson's job to stay correctly informed, elsewise they are not doing their job. They should know myth from truth becuase they work with the televisions all day long!

I do have some experience with the Hitachi Plasmas. Although Hitachi makes very good panels at their 8th generation factory, they are mostly given to other brands, Such as Panasonic. This leaves my ultimate opinion of Hitachi to be entry-level, as their blacks are very grey in the P401 series (carries by Best Buy), even greyer than some LCD's I have seen (Samsung 71/81 series, XBR4/5). And they are traditional plasmas in the sense that image retention is more severe on that particular panel than others. I have also noted some serious processor articfacts and color banding, not very good. So although I am for plasma, I might look at other brands than Hitachi before making a final decision.

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No Plasma TVs At Walmart
by paulds48 / February 12, 2011 2:13 AM PST
In reply to: First of all...

Stopped in Walmart this morning and they didn't have one single plasma television for sale. It doesn't take much of a soothsayer to see that plasma days are numbered. When Walmart doesn't handle a particular technology, it means that millions of tvs won't be sold that other wise would have been.

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Walmart????
by Dan Filice / February 12, 2011 7:13 AM PST

You are using Walmart as the reference for what's in and what's out in electronics? Walmart sells what they can get in volume and sell cheaply. The buyers at Walmart buy what they can sell. LED and LCDs are idiot-proof models and they are what 99% of the idiots ask for when they wander into BB, Walmart, etc. Take advice from Star Wars: "Move along. Nothing to see here", and just follow the lemmings right off the cliff. We'll all be better for it.

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Yah that has to be in...
by givemeaname / February 12, 2011 7:39 AM PST
In reply to: Walmart????

The top 10 crazy things I have read here.

Wallyworld center of the universe.

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I'd Say You Have Something To Think About
by paulds48 / February 12, 2011 11:26 AM PST

In 2010 Walmart was the world's largest public corporation by revenue, according to the Forbes Global 2000 for that year. To say Walmart is irrelevant is absurd.

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Walmart is relevant, but...
by Dan Filice / February 12, 2011 1:47 PM PST

But Walmart is NOT the retail outlet to use as a reference for what's in and what't out in electronics. Just because Walmart sells zillions of Westinghouse LCD TVs doesn't make Westinghouse a good brand.

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Walmart Sells To The General Public
by paulds48 / February 12, 2011 8:18 PM PST

Walmart is a very good indicator of how a technology is selling. I know of no other retail facility that is as important as Walmart regarding sales of televisions at this date. The high end boutique stores only cater to a hand full of people. Not many are willing to pay the exorbitant prices charged by these specialty stores. I would suspect that quite a few people reading this forum have bought their tv at Walmart or equivilent discount store.

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Amazon
by givemeaname / February 13, 2011 12:58 PM PST
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172659/ref=pd_ts_e_nav

I must say who is "iSymphony", I thought they made cheap MP3 players.

I saved $400 on my Panny 54g10 1 months after the release date & $600 on my Sony a2000 2 months after release date buying from a (online) "specialty store" & authorized dealer, never pay retail, always shop around. You can save $$$$ when you goto a specialty store & you always get better costumer service too, they have to, they have nothing else to fall back on, unlike Wallyworld has many fall backs.
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But in what?
by givemeaname / February 12, 2011 2:08 PM PST

Where is their majority of their income is coming from? The WallyWorld where I live has almost no tv's & none over 42". You goto BB 1/4 the store is TV's, Sears has more TV's then Wallyworld here.

There's a sucker born every minute, Vizio (junk) is what they are selling, those people what cheap stuff, it is an impulse buy all it is, I would like to know what the return rate of their electronic divisions is.
How many PJ's did you see at Wallyworld?
Just because some stuff is not moving or even sold there does not mean people are not buy somewhere else, what about speakers, there are 100's if not 1000's of brands of speakers most not sold at Wallyworld.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/home-theater-gear/79776-new-numbers-shows-walmart-sales-more-tvs-then-best-buy-vizio-very-popular.html

I do not care how big they are, they are not an A/V electronics specialty store. When you can buy a TV & a bag a carrots in the same store that tells you something about the store, $$$$$ is all they are about. I have never given Wallyworld a dime & never will. I do not like how they treat their workers, destroy small business & I like quality over price.

Plasma will be here for many many years, top rated tv's, plasma, year after year, LCD's are about 3+ years behind Plasma PQ. I have changed many peoples minds thinking they where going to be going out and get a LCD then they see my Panny calibrated in proper lighting, next day they get a Plasma.

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You Must Live In A Very, Very Small Town
by paulds48 / February 13, 2011 12:38 AM PST
In reply to: But in what?

Walmarts in this area have loads of 55 inch LCD tvs to choose from. The entire back wall is filled with nothing but tvs of all sizes.

I don't see where Walmart is hurting one bit because of the lack of your business. If you want to go to other stores and pay more, that's your business. I bought my last LCD tv from Amazon. I really don't see that it is any different than buying it in a big discount department store.

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You so work for them.
by givemeaname / February 13, 2011 2:51 AM PST

My business is doing fine, gold, silver & platinum are up but rare roman coins are down a little but no big deal, the others is where the real money is.

It is not an A/V store that is the difference. You bought from amazon, buying online is good you save lots of money I have bought 3 tv's online. When you went to amazon did you know ahead what you wanted or just looked at the top 5 tv's they listed & bought one of those with out any research? Because that is like shopping for a tv in Wallyworld, they do not want you to do research before, just pick one of their tv's on a impulse buy.. Look it is cheap even if it does not last 2 years & have a cr8py PQ, so what it was cheap.

This is getting off topic..

Plasma will be around until OLED comes out in larger sizes & reasonable priced, so 5-8 years, that will also be the death of LCD's too.

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Also, Walmart carries limited models
by Dan Filice / February 13, 2011 4:16 AM PST

Most MFG's of TVs have low-end models and high-end models. I've been to Walmart, and they sell the same models as Target and K-Mart. You do not see the higher end models sold there from Samsung, Sony or any other company. You don't need to buy from a boutique shop, but you can't buy a high-end TV at Walmart. Speakers and receivers? It's a joke at Walmart. I hate BB, but at least they carry a full line of models. Costco even carries a much larger level of TVs than Walmart, and Costco does carry the high-end models. This morning I was at Costco, and they are selling the Panasonic 60" slim Plasma for $1400. It was beautiful! You should check this TV out at Walmart...Oh wait, Walmart doesn't carry Plasma because Plasma won't be around much longer.

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Sure Plasmas Are Cheap Now
by paulds48 / February 13, 2011 5:04 AM PST

Many stores are getting rid of their plasma tvs (dumping them is another word for it). This thread isn't about Walmart selling every tv under the sun, only that they no longer sell plasma tvs. To say that this doesn't really hurt plasma is rather foolish.

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Costco Plasma
by Dan Filice / February 13, 2011 6:07 AM PST

The Plasma at Costco is a new model, just released. But it's obvious you are convinced Plasma is dead, so please buy a TV at Walmart and remember you could have bought a TV that hand a better picture and lifespan.

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Plasma Has A Better Picture????
by paulds48 / February 13, 2011 6:19 AM PST
In reply to: Costco Plasma

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I currently own a Hitachi 65 inch 65S700 RPTV that puts out as good a picture as any plasma tv so I don't think I'm suffering in the picture quality department. I use an LG 47LE5400 for bedroom viewing which also puts out a stunning picture. If I had thought plasma was better, I would have bought one, I don't.

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LOL your funny
by givemeaname / February 13, 2011 7:27 AM PST

You need to see a plasma calibrated in proper lighting & you will change your mined. Plasma will be brighter, deeper blacks, better shadow detail & much more accurate colors then any RP or LCD (LCD with be brighter when not calibrated right) & I do have a RP a Sony SXRD A2000 & have had a Samsuck LCD.

All pro TV reviewers put plasma's as having the BEST PQ.

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Such a load of garbage
by masterying01 / November 5, 2007 8:18 AM PST

DVD's are gonna be discontinued, do you still buy them? So are cd's? its technology. The only reason to avoid a plasma is if you have a room full of windows and you have no way of blocking the light coming from those windows. burn-ins are actually image retentions and are not permanent and are also a thing of the past. step away from the 1080p/720p/1080i number game for a second and just look at the tv's side by side. you wont see a difference especially for a 42" when comparing resolutions and the colors on a Plasma are usually more realistic then that of an lcd.

as far as new technologies...SED wont be out for a very long time due to companies suing each other. OLED is getting closer, but if you keep waiting for technology, you will never get a new tv cause there is always something on the horizon. The 81 Series samsung lcd's have LED back lighting, but it is not an actual Organic light-emitting diode (OLED) tv. Higher end Samsung DLP rear projections also use LED bulbs, but again, are not OLED tv's.

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OLED
by bevillan / November 6, 2007 2:27 AM PST
In reply to: Such a load of garbage

And don't expect OLED to be affordable anytime soon. Sony is selling a 11" OLED later this year or early next year for like $10,000.

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