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apple computers and apple OS X

by mshazer / January 31, 2007 5:53 AM PST

why is it that you have to purchase an apple brand computer in order to have a computer that runs it's operating system OS X? doesn't seem strange that there are no other computers that come installed with OS X. i think that it is strange that Microsoft got sued because it did not allow competitors software in there software bundle but at the same time in order to use apple OS x you have to buy an apple. i the OS X system was available to other manufacturing then Microsoft would have real competition and apple will have to reduce there prices, in other words the consumer wins.

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And we would have Windows all over again.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / January 31, 2007 6:04 AM PST

How could a consumer win here? Look at the disaster the PC and Windows is. I'll sum it up in one word. "Drivers."

Bob

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the whole reason apple is apple
by iburkhart13 / January 31, 2007 6:20 AM PST

One of the main reason why apple is apple because of they can control the products they put in their machines. This means they can write software drivers to work perfectly because there is only a few componets in their porducts. and this is why everything just works on a mac!!

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I would double check...
by grimgraphix / January 31, 2007 10:12 AM PST

... the reasons you cite for Microsoft being sued. In most of those cases, MS was sued for trying to force competitors out of the marketplace through unfair business practices. In addition to that little fact, you might also keep in mind that MS is not a computer manufacturer... just a computer software developer. If you really want to say it is unfair that apple won't license their OS to other equipment manufacturers then you could just as easily make a case that it is unfair that Microsoft wont allow other companies to produce equipment that will play X Box games...

Honestly, you can buy the same 2 year old iBook that I am typing on right now for 2 or 3 hundred dollars on ebay right now. Quite a reasonable price for a great piece of computer hardware that runs a great OS... what more could you want?

Oh... I know what you want... after looking at your member profile, I see that you just joined CNet today and this is your first post... I know what you want... you just want to complain.

You don;t happen to be one of the same bloggers Microsoft hired to tweak their wikipedia pages are you? Grin

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first of all i do not just want to complain.
by mshazer / February 1, 2007 2:10 AM PST

second ye i did sign up yesterday but i have been going to cnet website for information for much longer than i can remember. the only reason why i posted this question is to find answers not thinking that my ignorance or the other members arrogance would be an issue, for that i am sorry. so just for a little background history, i want an apple for the software not for the computer. since i am forced to by an apple computer i just wanted to know why. the OSX system can now run on three different platforms all being exclusively apple. there is one thing i do not like about apple and that is that sales clerks at the Mall in NH. they act as if they are an elite group and that if you if you ask to Manny questions about switching from windows to mac they will blow you off by telling you to in a polite manner to just save you money and buy windows, especially when i told that that even though reluctant i did not have a problem with the price.

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Who would assure you that it would work?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 1, 2007 2:16 AM PST

Let's say you did have your Apple OS. Who would make it work? You may have missed why the Apple works so well.

Bob

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Is the store in the mall in NH you visit
by boya84 / February 1, 2007 2:46 AM PST

an Apple Store or are they Apple employees working the store? If yes, I can understand why their flippant response would get you to not like Apple. If it is not an Apple store, please don't equate non-Apple employees' responses to the company...

That they are not able to answer your questions and have to point you back to another operating system is merely an indication of their poor training and lack of understanding your requirements.

Microsoft made a decision to support their operating system to run on certain manufacturers machines. Microsoft makes software - not hardware. Apple makes software and hardware and made a decision to not support their software to run on other manufacturers machines. (They did for a short time years ago - eMachines and a couple of others, but that did not work out.) Just as trying to install the HP/Compaq "version" of Windows on a Toshiba machine likely won't work, or trying to install the Dell version of Windows on an Acer machine likely won't work, attempting to install OSX on a non-Apple machine won't work.

I hope this helps.

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store in rockingham NH
by mshazer / February 1, 2007 3:39 AM PST

yes it is an apple store. on last question, can you build you own apple computer.

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Absolutely. But who would make it work?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 1, 2007 3:56 AM PST
In reply to: store in rockingham NH

You seem to be missing the big point here. Apple delivers a ready to use system that has been tested with all the parts and drivers that are good to go.

Windows suffers from its strong point of many vendors of video cards and drivers from here to there in quality. You could build a Mac but the cost would be more than what a Mac would be.

Bob

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Yes, you can.
by boya84 / February 1, 2007 6:48 AM PST
In reply to: store in rockingham NH

Buy an Apple Macintosh, take it apart and put it back together again.

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LMAO!
by hustle7 / February 1, 2007 8:16 PM PST
In reply to: Yes, you can.

LOL! Nice response!

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Genuis
by rashidtem / February 2, 2007 1:44 PM PST
In reply to: Yes, you can.

I like that idea. I have a four year old Power Mac G4, bought it with one 80GB hard drive and only 256 RAM and one Super Drive. Now, I've total 4 internal hard drive total 450 GB and 2 external hard drive 300 GB EACH, so its over 1 TB (1000 GB) inside of a four year old machine and upgraded my RAM from 256 to 512 only and one more thing since i burned DVDs all the time. After 3 years my write gave up bought one online for only $80 Dual layer writer. Upgraded my OS 2 times bought original from Apple Store and proud of it, worth each and every penny. My machine works awesome to this day. I can challenge any PC user with a 4 year old PC can do this much. BTW after all that upgrade would it count as I built this machine if this satisfy this guy. Happy Apple Rules

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The Apple Store employees tell
by boya84 / February 1, 2007 6:51 AM PST
In reply to: store in rockingham NH

you to go buy Windows? Wow! REALLY?

I'm sorry, but I just find that pretty hard to believe - unless a particular customer is being REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY obnoxious.

Get that on a video phone! It would be hilarious. And I have every expectation they would not be working there very long.

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Define the phrase "Build"
by cyberpoet / February 1, 2007 9:21 PM PST
In reply to: store in rockingham NH

Although you can't build the motherboard, power supply and case (you have to buy them as a set -- as a whole computer), you can augment the unit once it arrives by adding additional hard drives, optical drives, memory, PCI cards, etc. from other manufacturers to expand the storage/RAM/capabilities. Depending on the unit, you can even upgrade the processor (using processor upgrade cards or PDS slot capabilities in various macs).

In theory, you could order just a motherboard from a repair channel (or eBay) and build the rest of the system from the ground up, although you would be unlikely to find the newest generation of motherboards & processors readily on tap to buy through an apple channel.

And although you can build a computer equally configured as a current MacPro tower for about the same price, finding a competitor's pre-built product with the same configuration will normally be more expensive (I priced some equally configured Dell's just a few weeks ago).

But Apple has a computer for the penny pincher in you (that makes you want to build from scratch) already: the MiniMacs.

------

On a separate note, I've noticed that Apple's store staff at a couple stores I've visited have definitely taken a nose-dive compared to how they were when they first opened. Although I could understand it during the Christmas-season rush, even yesterday (31 Jan) they were far less than optimal for any store in any trade that sells high-end goods. The genius bar wasn't stocked with geniuses, and several of the employees were patentedly rude compared to what the corporate policy is...
Sidenote: my 30" LCD display was going back in again for repair, this time with a preset 3rd-tier case issue number tied to the video engineering department at Apple, because the first time it went in, they didn't do any repairs -- sporatic problem with black jittering to red. Staff at the store literally argued that I couldn't submit the unit without an appointment and their genius' diagnostics skills; I was already annoyed that I couldn't ship the unit directly in and instead had to heft it down to a store half a county away.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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Forgive me if I mistook your intent
by grimgraphix / February 1, 2007 5:37 AM PST

But it is quite common for this mac forum to get drive by posters complaining about how apple is not as good as it thinks it is. I assumed, when I saw you had never made any posts but this one, that you were part of that group.

I sold retail electronics for six years. All I can say is that you will often find indifferent salespeople at many retail stores. Some are uninformed, most are underpaid and overworked. Could it have been the store's staff did not understand the questions you were asking? When people are frustrated it is often hard to express one's self clearly...was this the case at the apple store? However, any sales person will usually respond in kind when confronted with an antagonistic attitude (just as I did to your initial post). Advice to consider when you are not getting help in a store... a store manager is always on duty and working to address customer needs when the regular staff can or will not. Can I ask, did you ask to talk to the manager? It is his job to go to extremes to satisfy your needs and get your business.

As for them telling you to stick with windows? Simply put, many windows users who ask about apple computers will challange us to tell them that an apple will do everything a windows machine will do. Quite honestly... it won't. Just the same way a computer running Linux won't do the same things a windows computer will do. BUT... the fact is that they will all do SIMILAR functions and do those functions quite well.

As I said before and Boya84 reiterated... Microsoft makes software for a variety of different computer manufacturers. Apple chooses not to because they produce BOTH software and computers. I am sorry that this does not satisfy your sensibilities but as I pointed out with my example of Microsoft's XBox games... it is actually more common for home elctronics to run proprietary software, than it is for that software to run on any device of your choosing.

As for me jumping your case? I suggest you explain your whole reason for posting rather than just complaining that a product doesn't do what you want it to do.

They don't call me "grim" for nothing.

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Send me a Bill!
by mrmacfixit Forum moderator / February 1, 2007 9:06 AM PST

"They don't call me "grim" for nothing."

What is the going rate for calling you Grim?, he said boldly.

Happy

P

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LOL
by grimgraphix / February 2, 2007 12:58 AM PST
In reply to: Send me a Bill!

I will email you my Pay Pal account address.

No more wooden nickles in the mail, please!

Grin

grim

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Let me help you buddy
by rashidtem / February 2, 2007 1:35 PM PST

First, plz dont make fun of my grammar. My english may not be perfect so whoever wants to bash it please pay attention to the point i'm trying to make as long as it make sense to you. OK now let me get to the point buddy. I used windows for 15 years and then a magic happened that I end up purchasing 2 Power Mac G4 for my boss after he was told by some friends of his that they will be good for his business. Have you ever notice that all the mac users do act like its a cult? ever wonder why? we are not just some arrogant ******** (excuse my language). Let me try to explain it to you and plz have a open mind. Most of us have windows back ground and the day we started using OS X we did fall in love and believe me that is not a exaggeration. Next thing we started to wonder, what the hell is wrong with rest of the world they are using Windows. Its like you live in a city where everyone has the same problem and suddenly you find the solution and then you are trying to tell others the solution and they look at you that you are the one who is crazy but you know you are not because your solution prove to you that it will fix the problem that rest of the people has. I hope you got what i'm trying to say. We all see problems with Windows, I owned a superb machine with windows installed and on daily bases the problems i use to get, i thought that's how life is until i found out No there is a way out, there is a way to a better night sleep. There is a life without problems with drivers and dll issues and that is OS X. If you are still reading my long response let me tell you why Apple makes the OS and only allow it to be installed on only THEIR machines. One big reason windows have problems is CONFLICT between different components. Its like this, you gather body organs from different places and some how make a human being and now you install a brain made by somebody who has no idea about the organs and hope they'll get along, well sometime they do and most of the time they dont. Apple assemble body parts that are made for that brain so they all know what's going on and they make other software that also works flawlessly cuz they know that OS and the machine that iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD and other software are gonna be running on. Why are we so proud? Because we know and truly believe that we are absolutely right about our decision of using OS X. Open your mind and give OS X a try with a positive attitude and believe me you will love that decision of yours and will be proud of yourself cuz you switch. Good Luck

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Hey GrimGrix....
by Alegoo92 / February 1, 2007 6:45 AM PST

Sorry about this irrelevance... but how do you put bolds and italics and other typefaces into your posts (as I saw you do in the lower portion of your comment). Do you simply use the HTML <b> bold <b> ?

Thanks,
Alex

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Try these links...
by grimgraphix / February 1, 2007 7:33 AM PST
In reply to: Hey GrimGrix....
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Thanks
by Alegoo92 / February 3, 2007 8:18 AM PST
In reply to: Try these links...
thanks for the help

Alex
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in this forum you use different code...
by grtgrfx / February 2, 2007 5:41 AM PST
In reply to: Hey GrimGrix....

Use the bracket symbol instead of an HTML caret, that is [your code] and [/your code]. For a link, use ["url="] instead of <"a href.">

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Deal with it
by Alegoo92 / February 1, 2007 6:43 AM PST

Apple keeping OS X on strictly-Apple hardware is not this terrible, evil thing. It is not even bad, because it allows software to funtion and sync just right with the hardware (which is definately implicated well into OS X) and allows the hardware to perform equally as well. Keep in mind it is called Mac OS X, implying that it is designed specially for the Mac (like the iPhone runs OS X---not MAC OS X...)

Technically there are some ways to get Mac OS X on a PC, I've seen it done, but why? If you can't afford a Mac, and do not want a Mac Mini, than I guess your not getting Mac OS X. Deal with it... stop expecting companies to shine your shoes and make your dinner...

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OS X on other computers
by Safeauto / February 1, 2007 8:38 PM PST

Apple OS can run on other computers. The problem you have is hardware compatibility. OS X is just a very good bundled Unix type operating system. If you ever used a Unix/Linux system, you would know that yes it can be put on just about any computer. The problem is that the hierarchy of the operating systems work differently and therefore the hardware has to be programmed differently. With MS users being around 95% of the PC market, companies build there hardware toward the MS Operating system code.

The companies cost to make their hardware compatible with all OS's would be high based on the % of people using each OS. Just like in a Unix/Linux system you could build your PC by buy the right parts. The cost to you would be higher. Apple has put together a total (very good) package for you, reducing the cost to you. HP, Sony, and Toshiba does the same thing with there systems and sells it to you.

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Apple is Primarity a Hardware Company
by batavier / February 2, 2007 3:12 AM PST

Unlike Microsoft, Apple's main business is selling hardware, like computers. It produces Operating Systems and software in order to sell it's computers. Occasionally, and ofter reluctantly (as in the case of iTunes) is will make a windows version, by popular demand - and to sell more hardware (like iPods.)

Hope this explains

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Don't forget
by boya84 / February 2, 2007 3:31 AM PST

QuickTime and FileMaker... And I don't recall that they provided these reluctantly or "by popular demand"... same with FireWire...

Personally, I *think* Apple is in the business of selling "systems" as opposed to "components"... Typically, hardware or software is not developed or produced as a standalone component but either a relatively complete "system" of interworking parts (or an addition to an existing system.

Like Macintosh OSX and applications and the Macintosh hardware platform
Like iTunes + iPod (regardless of operating system)
Like AirPort, AirPort Express, AppleTV (wireless networking "system")

I can't *quite* figure out yet where the iPhone fits in this theory.

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Sidetracked?
by batavier / February 2, 2007 4:23 AM PST
In reply to: Don't forget

With the risk of getting sidetracked fron the original question,
my assertion is not a theory. It was the primary reason Apple has been giving privately (at MUG meetings) for cancelling the MacClones program. "By allowing non-Apple computers to run on the Mac OS, Apple was amputating it's own legs" (or something was said along those lines.)

QuickTime and FileMaker started out as Mac only products. The reasons for QT and FM's cross platform availability are probably not exactly the same, but the bottom lime is that making those products available cross-platform, allows a Mac user to keep his or her computer and still enjoy the advantages of a better product than would otherwise be available. In fact, OT has become the defacto standard internet media format (not sure what impact Yahoo's absurd Windows only video format is going to have here.)

FireWire was developed by a consortium that is headed by Texas Instruments, the primary manufacturer of the FW chips.

I see iPone as an iPod that is also a phone; plus a PDA, running on some form of OS X. I think this is more a case of, well guys, we got some neat software and OS. Now let's see what else we can do with all that. This would follow along your idea of system integration.

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The Mac Clone Story... where it all went wrong.
by cyberpoet / February 2, 2007 4:56 AM PST
In reply to: Sidetracked?

>> It was the primary reason Apple has been giving privately (at MUG meetings)
>> for cancelling the MacClones program. "By allowing non-Apple computers
>> to run on the Mac OS, Apple was amputating it's own legs" (or something was
>> said along those lines.)

After several years of trying it, they found their per-unit margin on the clones was down to around $15. That wasn't enough to justify the overhead of the engineering staff support and other high-level support to the manufacturing sector, plus at the time the clone sales weren't attracting new PC buyers (as Gasse had hoped at the outset when he initiated the program), it was simply undercutting Apple Brand sales, which represented typically $150 - $300 per unit in margin at the time.

Thus when Jobs first repeared at Apple, he told the vendors that to get OS-8 compatible BIOS licensing, their fees would be increased (to the point that they would no longer be able to undercut the mothership significantly). When the 3rd party vendors (Motorola, Radius, DayStar Digital, Power Computing, APS and UMax) didn't take this offer, the introduction of OS 8 ended Apple's BIOS-licensing effectively (since their existing contracts were for OS 7-compatible BIOS sets, and manufacturers didn't want to be caught selling hardware that wouldn't run the current OS).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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OS-8 compatible BIOS
by batavier / February 2, 2007 5:11 AM PST


Hmm... my old PowerCenter132 has been running just fine on OS 8.6 Perhaps because it was unaware that it wasn't supposed to Happy
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Don't agree with your story
by mrmacfixit Forum moderator / February 2, 2007 9:42 AM PST

The reason that the clone company's stopped making Mac clones had nothing to do with any BIOS. That would be the Apple ROM.
It all had to do with the fact Apple were asking for higher royalties, especially for the faster machines, and the clone makers refused to pay. The clone companies were only licensed to build and sell System 7 machines, so after his return to Apple Steve Jobs who had never liked the clone program, tried to end it. He managed to do that legally by changing the next OS release number from 7.7 to 8.0 and thus effectively ended the clone business. Apple purchased the License and assets back from Power Computing.

I have seen a Power Computing machine running System 9

P

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Define "can't"
by wizotch / February 2, 2007 9:41 AM PST

"Define the phrase "Build" - New!
by cyberpoet - 02/02/07 5:21 AM
In reply to: store in rockingham NH by mshazer
Although you can't build the motherboard, power supply and case..."

ok then define "can't". if it were not possible to "build" a mac motherboard, power supply and or case then the mac would not exist.
the same can be said for any product. someone somewhere has to be able to "build" or manufacture these things.
i did read the whole post by the way and know the context in which it was originaly posted.

i like both mac and pc (there i said it). both have ups and downs.
i like mac for its ease of use and zero viruses. i like pc for the outer casing appearance. i find the mac case to be too wishy washy looking and too slick for my personal taste. i do however hate windows. i only use it cuz i'm looking for a way to take the perfect inards of a mac (intact) and give them a pc case. or at least a more rugged one that doesnt look like its made of fine porcelain or cristal wear that mom keeps on the top shelf and is not to be touched lest it scratch the finish.
yes i am a new member and yes i know i sound silly and yes i know im a noob and yes i know i dont know squat and yes i know this is my first post. and no i dont work for gates or microsoft or wazniac or apple or at a retail store.

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