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Amish complain of too much government

by Steven Haninger / March 26, 2013 9:36 AM PDT
Stay away from my out house!

I think we should leave them alone but they've not seen government regulations until they've tried to live in the city.

By the way, you might also want to stay away from a vegetable stand featuring Amish produce. Wink
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I want to know what they
by James Denison / March 26, 2013 3:32 PM PDT

are going to do to stop all those flocks of starlings crapping on my cars, to stop the squirrels from urinating on my deck. They should be doing something productive like come here and put daily diapers on all these critters crapping all over the place! Where's the officials when you really need them?!

If a bear takes a crap in the woods does anyone care? What if a human does one right next to it? Well, then look out, here comes the pooper scooper regulators.

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People are supposed to avoid crapping in the woods
by Steven Haninger / March 26, 2013 8:25 PM PDT

but, for now, it's self regulating. Human waste disturbs the woodland critters. They know both their friends, enemies and their food sources by what's dumped on the ground. When you go camping, you're really to dispose of this stuff properly or take it with you when you leave...the same as your neighbors clean up after their pets use your yard for a restroom...Right!


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The Amish
by James Denison / March 27, 2013 1:32 AM PDT

could probably put in those new "composting toilets" and bypass what their county wants them to do. Maybe someone should tell them about it?

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Impacting the land
by Willy / March 27, 2013 3:15 AM PDT
In reply to: The Amish

It's a "community" set of laws. These are part of what makes it work for more urbanized areas. What if everyone did what they're doing. Even if the outcome was for the good use, the bad side may outweigh that or worse just turn from a nuisance to health problem. I realize more than anything, its the smell, but also human waste is more inviting to health concerns bit also animals. Even, if the whole community was Amish, they in turn would have to deal with it, because it could turn to bite them under denser human living conditions. If they have "well water" that will in time become contaminated. It all adds-up and will effect a community.

I also want to rule any "outside forces" trying to impact or somehow encroach the Amish so that they have to move or give-up too much and deem it better to move out. The end result, what is prime Amish land is now left to those remaining, good or bad.

As it stands, there are already rules for other wastes from animals. That has to be controlled, as in the example of a pig, creates as much 6x what 1-human creates. Holding waste pens/ponds is not uncommon to include underground tanks as well. They all have to be emptied or carted off because one person's land can not provide the area needed to "air treat" to dry out and then ship elsewhere as fertilizer needs. Simple farms have to do that if animals are present beyond a certain amount. An Amish family can be pretty big too to include other members/guests may impact a closer urban community than what was before or has become so closed-in and now impacting the area even harder. My neighbors I know are spreading the wealth after they clean out the barns for cows and what have you. Pheewww...and I'm glad it's only a few times a yr.. -----Willy Happy

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Unfortunately, I don't think its the human or animal waste
by Steven Haninger / March 27, 2013 4:10 AM PDT
In reply to: Impacting the land

that is as much of a problem as are the drugs and other medicines we are taking and excreting in massive amounts into the brown water system. Medical science, in an attempt to improve our health, is also killing us at the same time. Happy

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Wow, a 100 acres
by James Denison / March 27, 2013 5:07 AM PDT
In reply to: Impacting the land

and no place to take a poop without destroying the environment. Sounds more like Kook poop thinking to me.

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At least they didn't have a cow.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 27, 2013 5:17 AM PDT
In reply to: Wow, a 100 acres
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(NT) Plus methane- just before.
by drpruner / March 28, 2013 7:30 AM PDT
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That adds another 80-110 kgs of methane per year.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 28, 2013 7:39 AM PDT

Some article puts that at 50 to 100 Liters a day.

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It's because cows make it that we don't need to
by Steven Haninger / March 28, 2013 8:34 AM PDT

Humans are (mostly) omnivores and eat higher on the food chain. Critters such as cows that eat lower on the chain which makes them produce more air biscuits. If we ate their diet, we'd do much the same.

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best way to check a planet for life
by Roger NC / March 28, 2013 9:31 AM PDT

methane in the atmosphere is mostly cow farts.

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They should plow it in
by James Denison / March 28, 2013 1:26 PM PDT
In reply to: Impacting the land

soon as it's spread. More value is saved into the soil from it if they do, and the smell factor diminishes greatly.

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only if you spead it after the end of the growing season
by Roger NC / March 28, 2013 1:55 PM PDT
In reply to: They should plow it in

at least with animal feces, like horse, cow, goat, chicken, etc, too fresh isn't good for plants.

It needs to either be plowed in and left over winter, or allowed to compost for a year, even then best mixed with soil.

One of the best according to what I've been told, is the horse manure mixed with straw from the stable stalls when they're cleaned out left out to dry.

I remember one guy I worked shift with for a while, he did raised plot gardening, slightly different soils for different plantings. Someone offered him horse manure and he went to get a trailer load, glad to get it. He got there anf for him it was unbelieveable treasure. The horse owner had been cleaning stalls for years and piliing out back. There was a long row piled about 5 ft high. One end was the newest, but the other end was a few years old, already composted to a large degree. The gardener hauled of several loads working from the oldest end of the pile and it was like the best present ever to him.

Couple across the road from my next door neighbor has a horse in a pen. I've thought about asking to shovel manure from the pen in the fall, mixed it with all the potting soil from dumping the summer annual flowers my wife use to grow, and then using it in the spring for gardening, or new flower beds for her (before she got sick of course). Seems like an easy way to go, it's within wheelbarrow distance.

Unfortunately their rep concerning drug addiction is bad enough I don't even want to ask them for ****, literally. Never see much evidence of it myself, but they're not very friendly, and no one trust them, so I passed.

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I've heard the strongest
by James Denison / March 28, 2013 11:53 PM PDT

is chickensh_t. Maybe you could pick up some from a local egg producer in the area. They used to mine caves for bat droppings that had piled up for decades, even centuries.

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chicken manure is very loaded with ammonia I understand
by Roger NC / March 29, 2013 12:32 AM PDT

but very good if let to age some, I'm not sure how long. I've heard the poultry farms actually sell it, it's in pretty high demand. Around here the big thing is loads of dirt from cotton gins. The dust and plant matter that accumulates during processing the cotton is suppose to be really good to spread and mix into your soil. The draw back is often loaded with weed seeds. Some co-workers have gotten loads, dumped them and sprayed the first year with contact weed killer as they sprouted then spread the next year. Of course, those are the guys that spend a lot of time comparing ideas and notes on growing golf green style lawns. Me? I just mow what ever comes up, although I have sprayed dandelions.

Most say that if you actually cut chicken manure in the fall before, maybe till it once or twice over the winter, it'll be ok unless you really piled it on. Most often recommended though is still aging and drying for a year at least before use. I've know people to spread it this spring over an area and not plant new gardens or decorative plant plots until next spring.

I doubt I'll need any. Since my wife died last year, I doubt I'll even try to do the two row tomatos, squash, zucchini, and bell pepper garden we did the last two years .I'm not very energetic when it comes to working in the yard for an hour or two most days after work then doing the housework too. Frankly I'm lazy.

I'm not even sure I'll keep all the decorative plants, bushes and trees. I just as soon not have them in the way when mowing. I would give them to my mother since she has always grown flower plots, however her age has her reducing her planting area because it's getting more difficult for her to keep them clear.

I am still dumping the kitchen vegtable scraps, coffee grounds and filters, dryer lint, etc., into a compost hopper. It's one of those you fill in the top and remove from the bottom. I've got a pile at the very back of the lot I threw last years annual potted flowers and soil, any yard trimmings etc. I am bad about not turning either as it should be. It will still break down, but if not turned it's slower, slimer, and can be smellier. Also not turned has more bugs and flying insects around it. The one thing I don't like about this plastic unit is since it's open bottom and you shovel it out a door in the side the bottom and ground actually tend to "join". Also the nutrients leak out enough around the bottom so that grass and weeds grown at an accelerated rate all around it. If moving it, I would consider pouring a small thin concrete slab to set it on. However, not sure it would ork as well if not connected to the ground, worms and such.

Even if I don't use it for any gardening, I'll probably keep composting the kitchen vegtable scraps etc. If I don't use it for anything else, when it gets full I'll spread it in the year in area that either are low or that appear to grow even grass poorly. There's just no sense in throwing all that in the trash. I'm not a big eco nut, but some things just make good sense. You could just spread such over the yard but it would be ugly, so let it compose a year in a bin.

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veggies and lillies
by James Denison / March 29, 2013 2:34 AM PDT

One of my daughters spread the wood ashes over my lillies instead of the garden plot, so I've been digging them out and moving since they prefer acid soil and the last time she dumped wood ash near them it stunted some, killed others. I'd told her not to do that again, but she forgot.

Extra tomatoes I run in the blender and then cook down into a sauce and can. I have a thermometer that goes above boiling, so I pour the tomato slop hot into warmed up quart size jars then microwave till I can get near 200F on the thermometer plunged to center point. Then I add a mix of rum + vinegar + salt on top that was boiled and cap it tight. Prior to that I use the mix to "sterilize" the bottles. I hate that old water bath approach to canning. Not had a bad one yet. As I get each done they go under a blanket to slow cool, next to each other.

Cukes, I pickle some, make salad from some while fresh, the rest I freeze. I use the ones I freeze later for tzadziki aka cucumber yogurt salad. I put that frozen cuke through the shaver on my processor, drain excess fluid, then add the goat yogurt, the salt the garlic and a bit of lemon juice, sometimes a bit of black pepper and use for spreading on toast or eat it strait.

Red cayenne peppers I either process then the same as tomatoes, or I freeze them to process later. The difference is some of it I put in a deep fryer, cook to a boil to kill anything, let cool to room temp, add some yeast and a bit of yogurt for lactic acid bacteria, some sugar, cover, it ferment, bottle about 10 days later with added citric acid or vinegar, salt, rum, then "age". Yummy and the process breaks down the pulp better than just putting through the blender. I suppose I could freeze the tomatoes for processing later, not tried that one, but could work out for making sauce on the day I wanted to use it. Yesterday I had can of store chili with 2 year old fermented and aged hot red pepper sauce.

I've frozen zukes, then later in winter I'd cut while defrosted a bit and boil them up but they tend to become rubbery doing it that way. Yellow squash freeze better. I think in future I may cook first, let cool, drop in a water tight ziplock bag and freeze.

We usually eat all the bell peppers when making but any left over at end of season I mix into the hot pepper mash for added flavors and bulk, but cuts the heat some too.

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if you enjoy doing it, that's great
by Roger NC / March 29, 2013 2:45 AM PDT
In reply to: veggies and lillies

I have a little interest, but not enough, esp alone.

Besides, it's always debatabe, even for two, but espcially for one, whether the extra cost of growing, processing, even freezer cost is worth it unless you're devoted to organic or semi-organic gardening and want to do it all yourself. That's just the financal cost, not counting the personal time and work.

As long as you find satisfaction in the work, it's worth it. If it's a chore, financially it's probably not worth it.

That's especially true doing it all alone after a 45 to 55 hour work week.

I guess I'm too lazy, I rather watch tv, play online, or read a book than be outside in 90+ F temperatures and 90+ % humidity. 90/90 and higher is normal around here from Memorial Day to well after Labor Day, normally to October.

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That's why I use the cheapest way to do it.
by James Denison / March 29, 2013 4:17 AM PDT

The jars and lids are about a dollar each, but pay for themselves by the second use. Instead of new lids each time I put a thin line of sealer on the old lid seals and then put them on, I've not had one fail to seal properly. Some lids have had 4-5 uses, but I toss if a bit of rust forms on inside of lid area.

Another reason I just overheat in microwave to insure it's really hot before sealing and then keeping heat to it under the blanket. Microwave canning is fairly inexpensive, but you do have to have it already hot before putting in jar and then top off the heat value measured at the center and near bottom to be sure. Water canning is a pain and cost more and waste more energy, unless you have some use for the hot water later on. Also steams up the kitchen too much.

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perhaps water canning should be like cooking fish
by Roger NC / March 29, 2013 5:01 AM PDT

use a gas grill as an outdoor range, keep it out of the house.

Good idea for boiling cabbage too, or for those strange enough to like chitlings, definately cook them outside.

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Since you seem to garden a lot
by Roger NC / March 29, 2013 2:53 AM PDT
In reply to: veggies and lillies

maybe you know.

The small cans of "green chilis" you buy at the grocery store, do you know what the plant is?

My wife used them a lot in cooking, a bit of spice but not as hot as others overall.

Although you never can tell with a pepper what you're going to get. I didn't know planting jalepenos and bell peppers close could end up with "hot" bell peppers due to cross pollination, happened with co-worker. Sound a bit interesting.

Anyway, I was curious if you knew what the green chili's actually were plant wise, since that doesn't seem to find anything definate in seed catalogs. They're definately not as hot as serrano or jalepeno's.

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I thought they were jalapenos
by James Denison / March 29, 2013 4:50 AM PDT

I'm pretty sure the ones my wife buys for salads are mild jalapenos. They do have different ratings, usually as mild to hot, although the true ratings are by the Scoville, which is based I think entirely on amount of capsaicin in them. My wife can't take really hot peppers, but I love them, bring up a nice heat, especially great in winter. I prefer to grow cayennes which is a larger plant with large peppers, about the size of bell pepper plants (California wonder type) for making pepper mash. For flavor you can't beat the tabasco, but I find due to my back and them being short, I have my youngest pick the red ones during the season and I cut them off at the ground and pick off the plant when most have gotten red near end of season. They are a lot more trouble than the cayennes and I didn't grow any tabasco plants last year. I've not gotten hot bell peppers due to cross pollination, even though they are often side by side. I suspect your friend might have planted some of his saved seeds and got the hot bell peppers the following year from the cross pollination of the seed.

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I found them
by James Denison / March 29, 2013 5:17 AM PDT
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Chiles are interesting.
by drpruner / March 29, 2013 6:02 AM PDT

Very many kinds, very many heat levels. All have good vitamin C and low [zero?] calories. Here in New Mexico they are practically sacred. Industrial chefs come from all over to buy them to mix with cheaper ones to enhance flavor. Like buying Arabica beans to boost cheaper coffees.
Also threatened by drought. Sad

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New Mexico
by itsdigger / March 29, 2013 6:40 AM PDT

is like the chile pepper Mecca here in the U.S. I traveled through there with an army buddy in 1973 (we were stationed at Ft. Carson Colorado at the time) and Don took me to this little town for Green Chili . Man I thought my face was gonna explode with the first bite. I had never had anything that hot even though I grew up here in Chicago with a bunch of Mexican's and Thai's . Over the years I came to love different types of peppers and the heat really doesn't bother me. I especially like to make my own hot sauce with a combo of habanero for the heat and half of a ripe bell pepper for the sweetness and one roma tomato for the acid. What a treat...Just my penny's worth.. Digger

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watch out for the ghosts
by Roger NC / March 29, 2013 11:29 AM PDT

ghost peppers that is.

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Hatch, NM is the chile HQ, but
by drpruner / March 30, 2013 4:45 AM PDT

they're grown all over. Hatch's first big harvest gets the international restauranteur crowd. They're trucked all over the state also in large burlap bags, about the size of a woman or teenager. They always remind me of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where the aliens shipped themselves in much the same way. "Giant seed pods!! Giant seed pods!!" Happy
Heat: A Mexican friend in CA once explained it sensibly. We gringos commonly add salt to our food in the dish, but we don't have contests to see who can take it the saltiest. Salsa (sauce) is the same for them- it's the flavor, and some like more heat and some less.

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by drpruner / March 30, 2013 4:45 AM PDT

My church won't let me. Happy

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While in the woods might not matter in these terms
by Roger NC / March 27, 2013 7:40 AM PDT

there are health problems and specific diseases that can be spread by "night soil" much easier than the general run.

While there can be health problems with animal waste as fertilizer, human waste is more dangerous as I recall.

Look at some of the disease outbreaks supposely from lettuce, or bell peppers, and other green produce just because someone didn't wash their hands. Actually, I suspect those were from people actually urinating and defecating in the field either because of the shortage of facilities (portapotties most likely) or the distance to them and perhaps pressure to meet high production volumes and the time to go to the porta-pottie was considered too much.

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(NT) Do you think they will take up arms?...Pitchforks?
by JP Bill / March 27, 2013 5:42 AM PDT
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They are more modern than that here
by Steven Haninger / March 27, 2013 6:28 AM PDT

They have rifles...muzzle loader types and not semi-autos or repeaters. If the first shot misses the deer, there won't likely be a second chance. That's as fair as it gets here.

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