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1080p Now or Wait a Few Years?

by WingNut757 / October 20, 2006 11:19 PM PDT

I am close to buying my first HDTV. It will be an LCD, either 37" or 40" in order to achieve the right fit. I'm leaning towards a 40" Samsung. My big question is whether or not to purchase 1080p technology now or to wait. I've heard Standard Def programming will look worse on a 1080p television. I'd like to ride this TV for 4 or 5 years. Also, if anyone can STRONGLY recommend a certain TV, please do. Thanks...

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WELL, FULL 1080p SETS ARE AVAILABLE NOW, THERE IS NO......
by Riverledge / October 21, 2006 8:15 AM PDT

NOBODY BROADCASTING it right now. Prices continue to fall, I'd seriously save your money for a couple of years.

river.

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IF YOU'RE HELLBENT ON A 1080p SET I'D SUGGEST...........
by Riverledge / October 25, 2006 8:33 AM PDT

THE SONY BRAVIA 40'' KDL-40XBR2.
Fantastic LCD set. Great blacks for an LCD.

best shopping, river.

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XBR is the way to go
by matt 5112 / October 26, 2006 10:02 PM PDT

XBR tvs look signifigantly better while displaying SD and ED than non XBR tvs but HD will still look alot better

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Purchase HDTV?
by abilone71 / October 27, 2006 4:23 AM PDT

I purchased a Sony 50inch KDFWE655 one year ago. It will be a long time before the new technology will be in my area. I feel I made a good choice. I have nothing that I wouldn't change, but would like the split screen which this didn't have. I had looked at and reviewed many brands and settled for the Sony. I made a good choice however this year I could pay at least $400 or $500 less for same TV. Oh well, I got my money's worth already. abilone71

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RE: Purchase HDTV
by windstorm06 / November 2, 2006 11:38 PM PST
In reply to: Purchase HDTV?

I have the 42in version and it does have split screen. Look on page 72 of the manual or look for the button with the little square where half is white and half is black.

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HDTV >>>> LCD
by horny4you / October 28, 2006 11:06 AM PDT

wait, untill after christmas,prices will full 25% or more on all sets,they need to get rid of them, so they have room for the new tv`s

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Agreed - Sony XBR is best
by Capn Preshoot / November 4, 2006 12:58 AM PST

Probably not what you wanted to hear since it's apt to cost a little more, but for the size you're wanting I think you'll be happiest with the Sony. Also buy locally, as this is far too fragile an item to get mailorder (in my opinion) plus it makes a return or exchange so much easier.

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WELL, FULL 1080p SETS ARE AVAILABLE NOW, THERE IS NO......
by jaybme82 / October 29, 2006 7:31 PM PST

I live in England.

I initially, agreed with you to wait as long as possible, which is what I am doing (performance and value for money will increase whilst prices will fall),

BUT!!! It depends on whether the person is asking whether he should buy; a 1080i or a 1080p LCD now!

This means that I shall be recommending 1080P if he can afford especially the Sony KDL-40XBR3(USA)if he can afford it: pointing out that the standard TV mode may be weak.

One Consumer on CNET said it was brilliant but the standard picture was weak.

I have just re-read the review in Hi-Fi? sound and vision magazine and they said that the standard picture was solid and clear more than most rivals, which is probably the same thing.

To improve the picture quality would require to buy an excellent cable for the analog tuner, which provides the standard picture.

The Sony KDL-40XBR3 should arguably be better than any other TV at least for digital sources (HD, DVD,Digital) at the moment in the 40"-42" range.

I will give him the option of selecting between Sony KDL-40XBR3 (USA) Sony KDL-40W2000 (UK) or the equivalent Philips 42PF9831D (UK), which argubly should be the best two LCD in 40"-42" and superior to the plasmas; Panasonic and Pioneer.

It appears that LoCOS will replace LCD when it arrives because it should provide better picture quality and be cheaper than LCD - maybe within the next two years.

I expected LoCOS to be 1080p, but I read some where that they will produce two versions; 1080p and 1080i.

First priority is picture and cost priority, therefore I wouldn't recommend the Samsung. Samsung TVs look brilliant but the picture quality must take an higher priority with me.

Barrington

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WELL, FULL 1080p SETS ARE AVAILABLE NOW, THERE IS NO......
by jaybme82 / October 29, 2006 9:58 PM PST

I live in England.

Since, sending my last message to you I have found out that Denon has created a 1080P upscale player to quote,

'... October 27th, 2006
New High Quality DVD Players
The new DVD-3930 and DVD-2930 dramatically...'

See the Website URL below:

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php

Waiting for a reliable and cheap 1080P; Blu-ray or HD-DVD burner will still be better, but at least technology and prices are moving in the correct direction!

Barrington.

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Mr Bar from jolloy old England
by stewart norrie / December 7, 2006 2:44 AM PST

I understand you chaps are very heavy into 2 channel anolog tube sound HOW COOL. Anyway about Denon d.v.d. players I have just replaced my 2910/955 unit with a new Sony blue ray player which puts out a pure 1080P picture and jawdropping to look at I also played a standard d.v.d. movie and found that the Denon does a much better job upconverting much better picture than the Sony so Iam going to use the Denon alog with the Sony blue ray, I have a guestion for you tell me about specs in europe I was told that standard t,v, broadcasts were at a higher rate than here in the states here we broadcast in 480 also do you have hi-def satellite service there, What about speakers I understand you folks make some awsome speaker systems I do know for sure that I would sell my soul to the devil for a AUSTON MARTIAN please post back always nice to hear from someone in another country stewart norrie or you may email me at cadillacstew@aol.com

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Re: 1080p Now...
by grc24 / October 22, 2006 1:29 PM PDT

I guess it's up to you. Do you want to spend the cash now for 1080p and be ready? Or can you wait? Maybe you can buy two sets. That's an option as well.
I currently am in the process of purchasing a Samsung 46" 1080p. (LN-S4695.) They can be had for approx. $2800 clams at a wholesale wharehouse such as BestBuyPlasma. (Not affiliated with Best Buy.) One thing to consider is to be sure your set has at least 2 HDMI inputs.

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It depends on how much you save
by jostenmeat / October 25, 2006 7:27 AM PDT

I have a Panny 61' 1080p. 1080p becomes more important as the screen becomes larger. The smaller the size of screen, it doesnt matter as much. Yes, I am redundant. At 40', you are prolly fine with 720p. I personally would get the 1080p if only because 1080p source(s) will drop dramatically in the next year, assuming you even want one. But like I said, I think it really depends on how much you save.

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1080p
by elad13 / October 26, 2006 10:20 PM PDT

There will be higher def TV's coming out by the end of next year...1440p is the newest format coming from Japan...so 1080p now I would wait, I would look more at the resolution of the TV's some 1080i TV have almost the same resolution has 1080p TV's. IF I have decode all this consumer confusion correctly..Resolution is the thing to look at for superior picture. MAke sure you check around alot of stores will sell an HD TV but now HD has a few different definitions. Right now almost all HD broadcast are at 720p. Unless you are getting an HD DVD player or Blu ray a 1080p tv now is still lacking programming to take advantage of all that display...Now I could be completely wrong and I am sure there are people that have different ideas...

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I have a 1080P...
by smdork / October 27, 2006 12:21 AM PDT
In reply to: 1080p

I have a 1080P Mitsubishi 62" DLP TV. A standard def DVD looks grainy and pixellated. I tried a Toshiba HDDVD and watched a movie on it on the HDDVD side. Looked freakin sweet. Then I flipped it over and watched it on the standard def side (upscaled to 1080i) and again it looked very grainy. I may be a little too close to my TV than I am supposed to be.

I recently watched all of the Lord of the Rings movies, and the dark scenes looked kind of bad (grainy), but the bright scenes looked pretty good on an upconverting DVD player.

I completely agree that you must find a TV with multiple HDMI inputs. Mine has 2, but 1 seems that it is only good for use with a computer monitor, so make sure there are 2 TV type inputs, not 1 of the 2 being a computer monitor input. You may need 1 input for DVD, 1 input for cable/satelite and 1 for something like a PS3 or X-box if they have HDMI capability.

It is said that the only way you can get true 1080P signal input is to get signal through the HDMI cable. Also, even though my TV is 1080P, it only accepts up to a 1080i signal and has to upconvert. (Again, the 1080i Toshiba HDDVD signal looked sweet).

1 more problem, is that the HDMI standard may change. There is a buzz around the internet that if the 1080P /HDMI standards change, then newer HDMI devices will not work with legacy HDMI TVs. Again, there is just a rumor, but it may become true.

So if you have to use component cables coming out of the source (DVD etc) then I have also heard the maximum resolution is 540P or 720P or 1080i, so the TV is going to have to do some work. That may be OK if the broadcast is 720P, but then the blue-ray technology will be holding back.

As far as cost goes, I wanted to buy a 52" 720P for $3500 in Feb of 05. It dropped down to about $3000 in Sept, and then I saw that the 1080P sets were coming out, so I decided to hold off. I bought my 1080P 62" Mitsu for $3200 in June, and by the end of August it came down to like $2600 or $2800. I can't speak on LCD TVs and cost but I bet as like in flat screen computer monitors, the cost will only continue to drop.

My buddy bought a Samsung 1080P LCD 42" TV, and whenever he changes the channel, the screen goes gray and then a line goes up the screen and it turns to color. Apart from that, he really likes the clarity of the picture. After seeing some of the demos of the LCD TVs, and after using mine for a while, I almost wish I bought an LCD but the cost was so much higher on a bigger LCD set.

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1080P myths
by karport / October 29, 2006 12:20 AM PDT
In reply to: I have a 1080P...

The following is my understanding based on my research.

You "cannot" see anything in 1080P unless the content is in 1080P. A HDMI cable will not work magic and upconverting is pretty much a myth.

There are some demo DVD's for use with Blue ray or HD DVD's which themselves have different standards.

Cable companies and broadcasters are still coming to grips with 720P and 1080i and since there is no financial reason for them to adopt 1080p that is not going to happen anytime soon.

As I see it 1080p is right now a performance feature that has no real utility nor will for quite some time, if ever. It is a great marketing ploy and if there are any facts out there that is contrary to the above, I would appreciate reading those.

Thanks

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There will be broadcasting in 1080p soon...
by theBiz / November 2, 2006 8:49 PM PST
In reply to: 1080P myths

At least in my area. Verizon (as in Verizon Wireless) is starting up their fibre to the premises networks in select areas in NJ. This includes full HD broadcasting for all channels on their TV service, including some 1080p suppourt.

The next-gen of TV/Internet on Fibre comes in Dec. 2006.

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We need to define the term Broadcasting!!!!
by jcrobso / November 3, 2006 4:23 AM PST

Broadcasting means Over the Air Transmission, anyone with a receiver can pick up the signal. AM, FM, analog TV and digital TV are Broadcasting.
There will be NO OTA 1080p.

Cable Companies(copper wire or fiber) can do about anything they want to. If they want use the bandwidth for 1080p/24 they can. OTA Broadcasting has a fixed bandwidth so they won't. John

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1080P myths
by jcrobso / November 3, 2006 5:26 AM PST
In reply to: 1080P myths

Just some FYI: to help with your Myths.
DH-DVD/B-Ray DVDs have the potential to support 1080p/24.

You can get WMV HD encoded DVDs that will play on a WindowsXP PC. If your PC is fast enough and has a good video card with a DVI output and your HDTV has a DVI input you can watch it on your HDTV at 720p or 1080p if your set will handle it.

The HDMI cable is only the "pipe" it gets the signal from one box to the other, how the video is displayed it entirely upto the HDTV. HDTVs display video at their native resolution of 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

Lets say your new HDTV is a 1080p set. You tune to your local ABC channel(ABC Broadcasts in 720p) your 1080p set will upscale the 720p to 1080p and display it.
Now you change the channel to the NBC station(NBC broadcast in 1080i)your HDTV will deinterlace the 1080i signal and display it as 1080p.
You breakdown and spend the BIG$$$ for the B-Ray player, hookup to you HDTV with a HDMI cable. The B-Ray player and the HDTV will do a handshake routine. The HDTV says I can do 1080p, the B-Ray player says so can I, The B-Ray player will now send the video at 1080p/24.
If the HDTV is a 720p set the B-Ray player will send it a 720p stream. John

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Truth about Myths
by prentz / November 4, 2006 12:47 AM PST
In reply to: 1080P myths

Your message is almost all true- the only source for 1080p right now would be something recorded. As I understand it, some of the 1080p recorded content doesn't do the format justice. Be sure to try to see both High Definition and Standard on the TV you want to buy. Some, just by their larger size, really make standard def painful to watch!
Sharp's top of the line and Sony's too are getting good reviews.
Since many TVs in the 37" plus size are now coming in 1080p formats for not much of a premium that may be a fine choice. But, also, as one person noted, there will be real price pressure the closer we get to Christmas- or right after.

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Finace reasons for TV broacasters to change their ways.
by blklacker / November 9, 2006 4:25 AM PST
In reply to: 1080P myths

I refuse to watch any TV channels not broadcasting a true HD signal. Im a snob when it comes to my channels.

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1080p LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD FACT
by stewart norrie / December 7, 2006 2:15 AM PST
In reply to: 1080P myths

Just got my new 1080P Sony blue ray hooked up last nite so here is the fact with no BULL. When I compare a 1080I picture with my Dish network 811 system and watching Nothing but trailers on h.d.net (that show has the best picture and sound quality) EVER and then watching a blue ray movie. blue ray looked a hair better But I have a 72" d.l.p. set so on a smaller screen you would not see any difference at all . In closing A 1080I picture looks so awsome as good as any movie theater why all this 1080P crap anyway. Guys it like having a car that goes 200 m.p.h and you want to spent twice as much on a car that does 205. If you have a nice system and hooked up rite then why worry about all this new technology just kick back and enjoy. In closing my old 72" d.l.p. Toshiba is now 1 yuear old and already outdated I everyone in this chat room puts down my set. well I dont worry about lamps, fans and wheels it still puts out a movie quality picture happy day stewee

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1080p should be considered if you can afford it
by maxpowers_37 / December 9, 2006 11:48 AM PST
In reply to: I have a 1080P...

Its true that you can't get 1080p signals through your tv provider. You can get it from blu-ray or HD DVDs, the playstation 3, the Xbox 360, as well as with your computer. I know a lot of people that play pc games on a large flat screen tv with 1080p and it looks great.

You don't know what will happen in 3 or 4 years with the possibility of downloadable movies, or prices falling on 1080p DVD players, or better upconversion technology. My opinion is that if you can afford it, you should get a 1080p set. You will pay more now, and prices will fall and better ones come out, but if your not planning on replacing your set for a while you should go with the 1080p.

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1080P now is better.
by Ron Geiken / October 27, 2006 12:57 AM PDT

I have a Samsung 71 inch DLP 1080P set, and it looks good with everything that I am putting into it. I have several high definition 1080i channels, and that is the very best for now. Some of the Channels including Fox are broadcasting 720P, and that is pretty good, but I would bet that eventually almost everyone will be running 1080i or better. I have TNT, ESPN and HBO in 1080i, and it is really fantastic. I will get to watch all of my sporting events in HDTV from now on. Also, seeing a movie in 1080i is just like being at the theater. DLPs seem to be lower in cost for a given size than any of the other types of HDTV, and the picture is stunning. Within a few years, I would bet that most of the HDTV broadcasts will be in 1080i or better for competitive reasons. I have Cox Cable in Phoenix, AZ, and right now every channel that I get on the Samsung is 480i or better which is about DVD quality. Any new 1080P set should be able to properly display any format received.

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RON A FRIEND AT LAST
by stewart norrie / December 10, 2006 4:58 AM PST
In reply to: 1080P now is better.

It seems that if you mention d.l.p. everyone here wants to bash I wanted to buy a Sony t.v. but in fact my 72" Toshiba flat out looked much sharper than Sony.And fact is I can see little difference between dish network and my new Sony Blue ray player 1080I and p both look beautiful there is no way you could improve picture quality. film looks just like going to a movie theater and live broadcasts look even better stew

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1080p Now is a Safe Bet...
by johnc6 / October 27, 2006 2:48 AM PDT

Here's a long list of what you need to consider:

1.) You said you only want the TV to last 4 or 5 years. You need to ask yourself if that is *really* what your intention is, or will this tv likely remain in your household for much longer? Most people have televisions that last 10 years or longer and are quite happy with them. So, again, is 4 or 5 years a real assessment? If it is, get a good 720p set and save your money. IF the tv will be around for 5 to 10 years, consider spending on a good 1080p set.

2.) Standard tv is scheduled to be replaced entirely by HD in Feb. 2009 -- well within the useful life of this tv. Also, HD tv standard is either 720p or 1080i, I have not seen any broadcast commitment to 1080p due to broadcast bandwidth issues. It will likely be a very expensive proposition for tv broadcasters to commit to a 1080p standard if it will cost them more money to broadcast in native 1080p, so I wouldn't hold my breath!

3.)If you are really committed to buying 1080p, make sure the set can display a 1080p signal, NATIVELY. As you may have noticed from several other reviews, many sets display in 1080p by upconverting either a 1080i or 720p picture. This is a major reason for a grainy or subpar picture on tvs that alledge that they are "true" 1080p. Even if the set has an HDMI interface, the signal may be being upconverted from 1080i to 1080p as there are very few devices that actually broadcast a 1080p signal. Currently, the only device that I know of that has the capability of supplying a 1080p signal to a tv is the new Sony Playstation 3. (Both models provide a true 1080p signal via HDMI.) To take a minute and clarify here, the tv *should* be able to display a 1080p signal natively since future devices will likely have the capability to supply a native 1080p signal.

4.) Three HDMI inputs only matters if you will have 3 devices hooked up to the tv that an HDMI connection provide add-value to you. The 3 devices to consider are: DVD/DVR player/recorder, Cable/Satelite box/DVR, and a game system like PS3 or Xbox360. Also consider whether you intend to buy any of these devices in the next 4 or 5 years, during the supposed time you expect to own the tv! (If not, then 2 HDMI connections are probably enough.)

5.)Something else to consider is that regular DVD's broadcast in 480p, so any benefit to buying an upconvert DVD player/recorder with HDMI connection is really a waste of money if the TV also has upconvert capability. My recommendation is to use a DVD player with it's component inputs and let the TV do all the upconversion, instead of wasting money of an upconverting DVD player that will upconvert the signal from 480p to something higher (720p or 1080i) and then have your tv modify that signal once again to 1080p! A good 1080p tv will do a good job of upconverting the 480p signal to 1080p, via the TV's internal signal processor. Also, my opinion is that the tv's processor will probably do a better job of upconversion since it is "matched" and built into the tv (vs. an upconverted signal from a dvd player that is independent of any tv it will play on.) A good way to look at this is upconverting DVD players/recorders/devices are only good for HD-Ready tv's and tv monitors since they lack the internal processor to do any upconversion on their own. A full-HD tv already has a processor built in for handling this task...The real question is, how *well* does the internal processor handle the task?!

6.) Don't get hung up on the new HDMI standard. It deals with bi-directional communication along the connection and only really matters with hooking HDMI up to an audio component system. The TV will not likely benefit from the HDMI v1.3 standard nearly as much as, say, a surround sound receiver will. I won't bore you with the details about what HDMI v1.3 is supposed to do, but that's the deal with the next version of the HDMI standard. It benefits audio way more than video. I will mention, however, that the new standard is backwards compatible, so don't worry about losing any current HDMI support.

7.)Lastly consider whether you want to ride the technology wave. If you buy latest-and-greatest now, it is likely to still be a fairly competent tv 5 to 10 years from now! Sure there will always be something better, but that's the nature of the industry! You waited this long to get into HD for several reasons that were all practical and good decisions, I'm sure, but there are always 2 decisions to make when it comes to buying technology: do I spend more money and get something that will last over the long haul, or do I save some dough and buy something that is competent by today's standards, but may be outdated in a few years? If 4-5 years is all you will have this tv, spending more money for 1080p may not be worth it depending on how you feel about the other things I pointed out. If the tv is *really* going to be around your household for 5-10 years, then strongly consider the 1080p solution with 3 HDMI connections. You will probably be happy over the long haul.

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1080p Now is a Safe Bet...
by jaybme82 / December 6, 2006 10:51 AM PST

I apologise that I donot have the time to properly reply to your message, but your information about HDMI 1.3 is wrong.

The HDMI's official site is:-
http://hdmi.org/about/faq.asp

Let's call them the establishment and they have been deliberately limiting the colours on high definition (HD) TVs, despite that should be aware of the picture problems with HD TVs.

HDMI 1.3 should substantially increase the picture quality of future HD TVs.

Picture problems with HD TVs:-
1) Banding
2) Artefacts
3) Noise (blurring)
4) Shimmering

It appears that CRTs are superior than HDs in some area for example:-
1) Brightness
2) Contrast and mine definitely doesn't suffer from
3) Banding
4) Artefacts
5) Noise
6) Shimmering

The HDCP conflict problems are probably caused by conflicts (imcom-patibilities between the different versions of:-
1) HDMI; 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.0a

There will be at least two different shapes and sizes of HDMIs 1.3.

I am at least 99% certain that they won't be including the old shaped and sizes of the old HDMI, (if they are responsibly for some of the problems with present HD products) with the newly designed HDMIs 1.3.

This is especially when at the beginning manufacturers were cutting corners and only using one HDMI sockets, which is as useless if a CRT only had one scart.

The future appears to be based on the HDMI 1.3 version for future compatibility and performances - much faster speed creates much better perfomances.

The earlier versions of HDMI will definitely be left behind.

I think that it has been claimed that half the TVs sold as being HD that people don't know that the sets are NOT HD compatible.

Whatever the number it appears that millions of HD products are faulty, especially based on the HD hype.

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1080p Now or Wait a Few Years?
by jcrobso / October 27, 2006 4:09 AM PDT

Well it's your money.
HDTVs come in 720p, 1080i and 1080p which cost more.
My guess is that in a year or two it will be only 720p and 1080p.
How good SD looks on ANY HD set depends on how good the rescaller circuit works, not if it is 720p or 1080i/p set.
The problem is that how good a job HDTV sets do with SD is NEVER reviewed!!! But many of the newer sets are doing a better job than last years models.
1080p source material will only be from HD-DVD/Blue Ray DVDs. John

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(NT) (NT) Now.
by Ryo Hazuki / October 27, 2006 9:16 PM PDT
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1080p Now or Wait...
by bobbyHD / October 28, 2006 9:54 AM PDT

I think johnc6 put it best. I agree with him on every point he has made.

One thing I would suggest as well is bring some of your favorite DVDs(DVD's with the THX Optimzer helps because it provides a series of tests signals/patterns to help calibrate with) to your local store and view them. Mess around with the TVs and the DVDs menus to see what the upconverted DVDs look like(the players upconvert versus tv upconvert).

But mostly the TVs menus I find pretty critical. My father just bought a Samsung 61'' DLP and the picture looks great depending on what you watch. What sucks is that whatever adjustments I made to make the Broadcast TV input look good it applied the same adjustments to the DVD input which made the picture look like crap. My point being...having independent control over each individual input is key. Last thing you want is to access your TVs menu everytime you switch between your gaming system, cable or dish, and DVD player just to get the picture looking right. I bought a Sony KD34960XBR(CRT) and it has alot of options in the menus. I'm pretty happy with it but I don't watch SD much at all on it because it looks like crap(one thing you won't be able to see in the stores). I have an SD set in the bedroom I switch to for that. But I bought my HD set for the sole purpose of watching HD sports and DVDs(480p BluRay & HDDVD wasn't out yet).

That brings me to another point about BluRay and HDDVD.
I don't own either but from what I have read neither one is fully there yet. Not enough extras on disc, upconverted DVDs look like crap on one format but not the other, and the fact that some titles don't exist on one format or the other. I'd wait for that BluRay/HDDVD war to end and there is a clear winner to be concerned about that. Or at least until there is a unit which can play both formats.

Going back to my father's DLP Samsung. I have to say I bought my tube set because the LCDs and Rear Projections available at the time had crappy contrast, blacks looked like crap, and it looked like I was looking at a TV through a screen door. DLPs weren't around just yet but after seeing my fathers I'm convinced..."It's the mirrors". I've seen some of Sony's LCDs that look nice too. The technology is getting better and better.

Best of luck and happy shopping!

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SD crappy?
by grc24 / October 28, 2006 6:34 PM PDT
In reply to: 1080p Now or Wait...

I know you don't spend roughly $3000. on a new HDTV to watch SD TV but does it make a difference where the signal is coming from? Lets say you have digital cable. Only the channels that are actually digital are...digital? (and there aren't too many yet. right?) The rest of the channels are still analog. Even though you're paying for digital.
Now a satelite reception is 100% digital right? Still not HD but wouldn't viewing on a 100% digital channel be better than the same channel on an analog reception???
My new HDTV is going to be the primary TV for watching movies or SD TV so I guess it's sink or swim. I know my wife will be upset if her Thurs. nights of NBC look crappy.

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