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June 17, 2008 8:53 AM PDT

Hold off on Firefox version 3

Posted by Michael Horowitz
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I love Firefox. Usually it goes hand-in-hand with Defensive Computing, as Firefox is more secure than Internet Explorer. But not today, not with the release of version 3 of Firefox.

Don't install Firefox version 3. Not today. not for a while.

Like all new software, Firefox 3 is best kept at arms length. Version 3 was a long time coming and, no doubt, features lots of new code. At the risk of repeating myself, all new software contains bugs and design flaws. Let the rest of the world debug it for you.

This is not to pick on Firefox or Mozilla. Recently in this blog, I suggested waiting on Windows XP SP3, which turned out, in retrospect, to be the right thing to do. I also suggested holding off on Vista and Leopard when they were new. How long to wait is a matter of opinion. However, waiting rather than rushing, is always the right defensive approach.

And, when the time comes to try Firefox version 3, go with the portable version available at portableapps.com. It can happily co-exist with a normally installed copy of Firefox. The only limitation I've found is that if the normally installed copy of Firefox is running, the portable version won't run (see below).

Finally, another repeat suggestion. Windows XP users should run all their web browsers under the free DropMyRights program. I wrote three postings about this last August. See Every Windows XP user should drop their rights.

Update June 17, 2008: Let me clear up some confusion about portable applications in general - they are not "installed", at least as far as Windows is concerned. When you run an EXE file downloaded from portableapps.com it looks like a normal installation and they even use the word "install" (an unfortunate choice). But, all that is really happening is the application is unpacked/unzipped into whatever folder you point it at. To delete the application, delete the folder. There is no un-install.

Update June 18, 2008: Today, Robert Vamosi wrote Firefox 3 suffers its first vulnerability. This is not what I was referring to here, as the problem, whatever it is, also affects version 2 of Firefox.

Update June 19, 2008: Firefox version 3 is now available as a portable application at portableapps.com. Even if you are not concerned about major new software releases, running the portable version 3 on the same computer as a normally installed copy of version 2 is a great way to compare the two.

Update July 2, 2008: Firefox version 2 is a great web browser. Today, they released an update, version 2.0.0.15. I mention this here because version 14 of Firefox 2 contained 13 bugs, five of which Mozilla rated "critical." That the 14th go-round still contained 13 bugs confirms my reluctance to convert immediately to the first release of a major new version.

Firefox 3 users will find that secure HTTPS web pages no longer display with a yellow address bar. To restore it see Firefox 3 gotcha: No more yellow address bars

See a summary of all my Defensive Computing postings.

Michael Horowitz is an independent computer consultant and the author of several classes on Defensive Computing. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network, and is not an employee of CNET. Disclosure.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) 91 comments
by thabassman June 17, 2008 9:10 AM PDT
We can all help to fix the bugs. Even if you just report them.
Reply to this comment
by Atomic1fire June 17, 2008 11:16 AM PDT
exactly and its not like firefox 3 was just made
lots of testing goes into it before its released and the public is free to check out the current testing version and test with Mozilla so any bugs are fixed before release
by lnotenboom June 17, 2008 9:42 AM PDT
One minor correction:

"all new software contains bugs and design flaws."

should read:

"all software contains bugs and design flaws."

Perfection does not come with age. (Sadly true in many other arenas as well :-). The key is that the number and obviousness of bugs, presumably, decreases over time. Like some algebra function, it approaches, but never reaches, zero.

Leo
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:19 AM PDT
Agreed.
Michael Horowitz
by FrankTurd June 17, 2008 9:45 AM PDT
Hmmm...I usually agree with your thoughts on many subjects, but here, I'll have to part ways. I upgraded my version of Opera to the latest (9.5) and plan to do the same with Firefox. The problem is that too many people NEVER end up upgrading their browsers. People are lazy by nature and paranoia by convenience just feeds that part of the brain.

Better to upgrade now, help the debugging and patch old security holes in the process. The longer people wait to upgrade, the less likely they well ever do it.

~Frank
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:24 AM PDT
Frank: I don't know if the latest version of Opera is a major change or a minor one. I always upgrade the minor versions of Firefox as they are designed to fix bugs. But, version 3 is a major change. As for people that don't upgrade their browsers, the self-updating process for Firefox is very well designed. Michael Horowitz
by JoyceNgo June 17, 2008 2:10 PM PDT
Not everyone wants to upgrade their browsers. As for me, I didn't like Firefox 3 much because of many things. The icons blind my eyes (especially the folder icons) and also I do not like the new interface. There's problems in the bookmark manager too.
by Yuhong2 June 17, 2008 9:47 AM PDT
That inspires me to compile FF3 from source when it is released, just so that if any bugs or problems are encountered, I can do debugging by myself.
Reply to this comment
by Keith X June 17, 2008 9:49 AM PDT
Firefox has been in public beta and RC testing for months now and is very well-tested and secure. The entire article is baseless, not one single fact about Firefox 3 is presented.

Don't install the Horowitz FUD meme. Not today. Not for a while.
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:29 AM PDT
Lots of software was in public beta for many months only be released with a host of bugs. A recent example being Windows XP SP3. Public beta testing only goes so far. If your computer is not very important to you, than there is no need to hold off on new software. But, this blog is about defensive computing, preventing problems before they happen. Michael Horowitz
by morlamweb June 17, 2008 9:59 AM PDT
Hold off on FF3? Ain't gonna happen, bud, especially since I've been using the it as my primary browser, at home, since Beta 2 or 3 - when they fixed compatibility with the new Yahoo! Mail interface. I've found the latest RCs to be much more stable than the earlier preview releases. FF3 Beta 1 would've been a more appropriate time for this post, since that was much more unstable in my experience than RC2.

Oh, and I also upgraded my Opera the day 9.5 came out, and guess what? Nothing broke. Ditto for the XP service pack upgrades.
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:35 AM PDT
No one interested in defensive computing installs pre-release versions of any software. And the fact that software didn't cause one person a problem is not relevant to the decision making process. There will be many people that have no problems. Defensive computing however, is about increasing your odds of being problem free. And, with major new software releases your odds are better the longer you wait. Michael Horowitz
by Bernielj77 June 17, 2008 11:00 AM PDT
I had downloaded the version 3 Beta and had all sorts of problems with it...locking up, crashing on me, all of a sudden closing on me and having to click on "Restore Session," etc., so if I have the same problems with the "Release" version, then I'll be un-installing it also, if I can get it downloaded that is, and if I need to un-install it, I hope that version 2 will still be downloadable. I couldn't believe it because I had never had any problems with any version of Firefox before, so I eventually un-installed the Beta version, so hopefully it's been perfected or at least "fixed." I did "pledge" to download FF3 on "Download Day," but so far I haven't had any luck at that as when I try a "Check For Updates," the connection times out, and when I click on the suggested link, the Firefox browser says that the page is loading, but it sits there loading and loading and loading, but that probably ties into the congestion of trying to download all on the same day and/or at the same time. I'll keep trying off and on though. Have a Great Day, Bernielj77
by morlamweb June 17, 2008 2:13 PM PDT
@Michael Horowitz: No, someone who wants to use the latest toys plays with beta/RC software. Someone interested in defensive computing runs a software firewall, anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-rootkit software, encrypts important files, backs up data regularly, uses long 15+ character passwords, and doesn't click on every link they see. Hey, that sounds kind of like me! Doing all of the greatly reduces my risk of a security breach, while using pre-realse Firefox browsers increases it only slightly. And, a final release that has made it through the gauntlet of testing that FF3 has endured - come on, how much risk is really there?
by mhinnewyork June 20, 2008 2:06 PM PDT
@morlamweb: the risk is small, but larger than sticking with Firefox version 2. At least, for now. I'm a huge Firefox fan, but major new software releases are always problematical. Nothing wrong with playing with the latest toys, as long as you realize the risk and don't do it on a computer needed for something you consider important. Personally, I experiment with software in a virtual machine, especially now that so much VM software is free.
by Bernielj77 June 20, 2008 9:43 PM PDT
For morlamweb and for general information, I used Zone Alarm for a firewall, then I used the Win-XP firewall when that came around, then I went back to Zone Alarm, as when I used the Windows XP firewall, it let in a couple of things that I needed to get rid of, one of which was tough to get rid of. I sometimes used AVG for anti-virus, and sometimes used Avast for anti-virus, now, even though they don't recommend it, I use both...Avast has found things that AVG hasn't found, but AVG has found a few things that Avast didn't and doesn't find, mostly Registry keys in the Local Machine area, and those "Active-X Compatible" Registry Keys, where I was able to remove them. I use Spybot and Spywareblaster for Spyware, and I did use an anti-root software, but I haven't used any lately, other than to do a root scan every week or two manually. FF3 has quite a few plug-ins that I didn't have or use before, but if you use AVG, FF3 doesn't support the two AVG Extensions that I was using. Also, FF3, since "Download Day," hasn't closed suddenly on me yet, like the BETA version did, but it has "locked up" on me three times, where I'd click on something, like say while viewing a map on the Mapquest website, or whatever, and the "hour glass" cursor just keeps showing and the computer appears to be stuck or locked up, even going to eat a meal and coming back later on, the hour glass is still there and I need to either reboot the computer, or do an end task to get FF3 to close...and as far as encrypting files go, I was doing that, but there is danger in doing that...I did that on a computer where the computer died, but the hard drive was ok yet, so I tried placing it into another computer and I could not access those files anymore. I had to either reformat the hard drive, or I had to re-install the operating system. The only way that I could access those files was in the original computer that the hard drive was in. I tried the Permissions, and access permissions, and with Windows Vista, I tried to use the "Right-Click," then the "Run as administrator" option, etc., and other things, but no luck, so I don't encrypt files any longer.
by spunkybart June 17, 2008 10:12 AM PDT
No reason to hold back.

Holding off on some software releases is smart. But this one has had so many beta and release candidates that I think it's pretty rock solid now. And it's nicer than FF2.

I've been using FF3 for the last 3 (on the Mac) release candidates and for probably 2 or 3 of the betas before that. I haven't had any problems (other than my extensions not working on the new version.)
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:38 AM PDT
Is the glass half empty or half full? I view your extensions not working as a problem. You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree. Michael Horowitz
by Bernielj77 June 20, 2008 10:03 PM PDT
For mhinnewyork, I used to answer that in a few different ways, at different times in my life. One time, when the glass of water was sitting there, I said that the glass is half full, if you're an optimist, and it's half empty, if you're a pessimist. The next time I saw the glass of water on the counter, I said to the teacher that what I saw was a half a glass of water, neither being an optimist or a pessimist. Then another time I gave a little more complicated answer. When asked what I saw, I said to him, "Well, if the glass started out empty, and was filled up to the halfway mark, then the glass is half full. However, if the glass was filled up, then was either spilled or drank down to the halway point, then the glass was half empty hee hee hee, or I told him that the other way that I could think about, if I didn't have any imagination, was that all I saw was a half a glass of water, or that it was both half full and half empty. The real tough question is though, what came first, the chicken or the egg? If you say the chicken, then didn't there have to be an egg to produce the chicken, and if you say an egg, then didn't you need a chicken to lay the egg?
by Bernielj77 June 20, 2008 10:08 PM PDT
Yes, I too had 3 of 5 extensions not work when going to FF3, but I don't know how important it is not to have the "AVG Safe Search" and "AVG Security Toolbar" extensions not being compatible with FF3, and 2 extensions were upgradable when I tried the "Find Updates," so they started working again after running the update. The main thing right now for me is that FF3 has locked up on me three times since Download Day, and FF2.0.0.14 never did lockup, crash or close on me, so if FF3 keeps locking up on me, I just may go back to FF2.
by partytildawn-20159620461052270 June 17, 2008 10:17 AM PDT
I don't think that we have to worry about holding back. At 10:00AM when the new version went live for download, Mozilla's servers crashed from the overload. For a company trying to "break a world record" and putting out marketing materials everyone begging everyone to download the browser today, they were ill-equipped to handle the load. I give them a thumbs down for this failure.
Reply to this comment
by PockyBum522 June 17, 2008 10:26 AM PDT
Design me a server to withstand a million users coming at it at once and I'll be impressed. Even amazon.com can't do that. (Rememeber the $100 xbox 360 back at christmas? It went down) And amazon does large scale hosting for other companies! If anyone should be able to handle it it's them.
by Bernielj77 June 17, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
I'm actually wondering about the "crash" you talk about...maybe people tried to download FF3.0rc3 too early...maybe they wanted to prevent the download until "Download Day" actually "started," meaning that I had checked my e-mail and it had a message telling me that I'll make history today and that I can start the download, and the "Download Day will go until 1700 UTC, so maybe some people, because of the timezone they're in, tried downloading "early" so to speak, if you know what I mean? I'm not even sure if I had downloaded early because right after I had installed FF3.0rc3, I noticed the e-mail from them, so maybe "Download Day" started just a short time ago...I don't know...I'll have to check that out for sure if the times work out ok. Have a Great Day, Bernielj77
by Bernielj77 June 17, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
Just checked the UTC, it's 20:07 UTC right now, so "Download Day" started only around 3 hours ago, so if you tried downloading before then, then maybe you couldn't make the download work.
by possumboy12 June 17, 2008 10:20 AM PDT
I very much disagree with you here.
Firefox 3 is far superior to firefox 2.
In fact - honestly: firefox 2 is a load of b011ocks.

When they released it - I stopped using firefox.
In fact until the BETA's of version 3 came out - I've happily been using Opera.
I love Opera - but Firefox's extensions brought me back.

On that note - extensions aren't a problem. It's easy to get incompatible extensions to work for firefox 3.

Firefox 2 - can not render properly.
On the contrary - I would consider it almost as bad as IE when it comes to rendering correctly.
in Firefox 3 this has been fixed. In fact the browser renders almost identically to Opera. Which is obviously a brilliant thing for designers - because it means that we can design without having to worry about **** browsers as much.

Sadly IE is still lagging behind - so designing for browsers which cant render is still a problem.

FF2 is SLOW. In fact if I remember right - it's actually slower than IE.
FF3 is FAST. In my experience - it's faster than Opera, which is really saying something.

Firefox 3 is a huge step up from firefox 2.
Firefox 2 should NEVER have been released. And I am happy to see it move to the archives.

Firefox 3 - is faster, safer, renders codes PROPERLY, from my experience is LESS buggy than FF2 - my advice: download firefox 3 the first chance you get and never look back.
Reply to this comment
by Bernielj77 June 17, 2008 11:30 AM PDT
I'll just say that I've been using FF2.0.0.14 and it has worked great for me, and there's an extension for FF to adjust the speed of your connection, but I have found that just changing a setting in my DSL Cable-Modem worked just as well to speed the connection up, plus another setting in my Linksys WireLess router, switched my Internet connection from showing a 614.4 Kbps speed, to a 100 Mbps speed, and I've found that pages load very fast...I have used quite a few of the extensions in the past, but I only use a few of them now, like the Walnut Theme, Adblock, Forcastbar Enhanced0.9.6, Stumbleupon3.18 and Talkback2.0.0.11 for examples.
by Bernielj77 June 20, 2008 10:17 PM PDT
I'm not too sure if I can say much about the differences between FF2 and FF3 as far as rendering goes, but I do know this, there were some online games using the .swf file extension, that I was playing just fine with FF2, but there is one flash game using the .swf file extension that doesn't work properly anymore since I started using FF3. The other .swf games however are working ok, so I don't know exactly what that means, if anything.
by Bernielj77 June 29, 2008 4:32 PM PDT
I just wanted to say that I never had a problem with FF2, but FF3 Beta crashed or locked up constantly, like 3 out of 4 times I tried to use it, so after a few weeks, or some length of time, I uninstalled FF3 BETA and went back to FF2. Now, with FF3, which I downloaded on Download Day, FF3 crashed again today, just a few minutes ago, and I think it has crashed about 5 times since install, so hopefully, with these crash reports that I'm clicking on will help them fix that problem.
by pepperboi222 June 17, 2008 10:21 AM PDT
I really didn't read enough negatives to cancel out the positives. Maybe a few bugs that will never affect me. I already have a good firewall and protection, which is more than enough as I don't travel to harmful sites. The article states there are bugs but I do not know what these bugs will do. And I have read far too much about all the new features to hold off because of some bugs that I will most likely not even notice.

"But not today, not with the release of version 3 of Firefox."

Does that mean that it is going to be easier for harmful content to gain control of Firefox 3 than Firefox 2? So someone is more prone to such threats when running Firefox 3 than Firefox 2? Where is some proof on that?

Thanks for the notification but this is a pretty good example for why I don't use CNET anymore.
Reply to this comment
by Tylor3000--2008 June 17, 2008 10:21 AM PDT
B-O-R-I-N-G

Firefox is a web browser. It doesn't launch missiles it brings up web sites. You probably never eat at new restaurants, drive a different way home from work or change anything in your life. That's totally fine, but this is CNET. You guys are suppose to be all about new stuff. If it was full of known bugs and someone screwed up, that's a different story. But I think grandpa needs to get out more.
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:50 AM PDT
Any Internet facing application is potentially dangerous. And, there have been many instances where by simply viewing a web page you can get infected with malicious software. CNET is indeed all about new stuff, this blog is different.
Michael Horowitz
by a2dcousin June 17, 2008 4:50 PM PDT
As usable an excellent post, one can never be to safe. People are free too take chances but people are free to be defensive to. Don't let the risk-takers slow you down, Michael. Keep on trucking.
by palmieriphil June 17, 2008 10:22 AM PDT
old fashion way of thinking.... its just a browser - not your entire OS.
And Mozilla (like Apple) i upgrade the second its out because i trust them and have been using the beta for ages. - Mozilla isnt MSFT, moz is out to make an awsome browser - not try to reclaim their footing as fast as possible.
Reply to this comment
by andyroo2000 June 17, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
Seriously, I can understand waiting to update to a new OS, but holding off on upgrading your browser seems overly cautious to me. I know you need to keep cranking out articles to get paid, but this really seems like a stretch.

A bad OS update can brake other apps, but if you find that Firefox (which has been in public beta for a while) ruins your life somehow, you could just uninstall it or use another browser if it's not working with a particular site. Or if you're on a Mac, you could do as I have done and rename your old Firefox and keep both side by side for testing purposes. It's really not that big of a deal.
Reply to this comment
by Bernielj77 June 20, 2008 10:31 PM PDT
Hmm...I just thought of something...You mentioned the OS...I haven't used the computer in the other room yet, not since "Download Day." That one I have Linux on...If there's a Linux version of FF3, I should have downloaded FF3 for that computer...Oh well, too late for download day, but I don't connect to the Internet with that computer anyway, but I might do so some day, either through another DSL Modem, or through either the Ethernet connection of this DSL modem, or through the wireless router connection. I downloaded SUSE Linux from my ISP because I only have one WIN-XP OS software, and that's an upgrade for WIN98 anyway, and I can't use it anymore anyway, because when my last computer broke down, and I tried installing the WIN-XP on the new one, I received a message telling me that I had run out of activations...and they wanted me to send them another $80.00 for another "Activation Key." So I downloaded two versions of Linux, Mandriva Linux, and SUSE Linux, and burned two DVDs of the ISO image, so I can run either version of Linux...I wasn't about to send them another $80.00 for another Activation Key, since I spent over $200.00 for the WIN-XP software to begin with, and the only reason why I'm running WIN-XP Media Center Edition on this computer, is because I don't have Linux drivers for all of the equipment that I connect to the computer, and also because I use a Roku Soundbridge, a wireless media device, to play music, that I have on this hard drive, on the living room stereo through my wireless router, and Linux doesn't have the proper format for the Soundbridge to work very well with my sound files. Anyway, I just thought of that now, but seems to me that I did see that the Linux version of FF3 was listed. I could have downloaded FF3 twice on Download Day.
by Williame789 June 17, 2008 10:24 AM PDT
i don't agree with you firefox 3 is very stable I have never have a problem with ff3 and I have used ff3 since alpha 8.
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:53 AM PDT
Not crashing is not the only yardstick for safety and security. Michael Horowitz
by PockyBum522 June 17, 2008 10:24 AM PDT
This is what I sent to a friend upon reading this article:
Thirty four months of testing by everyone and their mother and he's still not satisfied. Three release candidates, a company that vows to hold of until they're ready, a track record of producing secure and great software at first release...

With microsoft, I hold off.

With firefox, you're just a troll.

There are many fallacies and logic faults here. One previously pointed out is that you think bugs are going to go away with age, which has, fortunately been pointed out already.

Another is that firefox has never had major problems on release (Again, do to a huge beta that's open to everyone) I've been playing with RC3 for a while and never had a problem with it.

I also find it odd that you suggest running FF portable alongside your current installation, but you still say to hold off even when doing that. Isn't the purpose of that to check if it works properly for you without worrying about replacing your current installation? What harm could come from this method, since it is designed to be independent of your other installation(s)

Suggesting to hold off on download day is just mean, but fortunately it looks like nobody is listening.

In summary, I enjoy the comparion between Microsoft's and Mozilla's coding practices, build process, debugging and bugfix standards, track record, beta test size, dedication, and overall quality. There really is no contest.
Reply to this comment
by waxwing June 17, 2008 10:26 AM PDT
"I love Firefox. Usually it goes hand-in-hand with Defensive Computing, as Firefox is more secure than Internet Explorer. But not today, not with the release of version 3 of Firefox.

Don't install Firefox version 3. Not today. not for a while.

Like all new software, Firefox 3 is best kept at arms length. Version 3 was a long time coming and, no doubt, features lots of new code. At the risk of repeating myself, all new software contains bugs and design flaws. Let the rest of the world debug it for you."

I think it's safe enough, been through 5 beta's and 3 Release Candidates
Reply to this comment
by anon232 June 17, 2008 10:29 AM PDT
Comparing Mozilla to Microsoft??? I pray this is a troll or late April fool's joke, or I have now lost all confidence in you sir.
Reply to this comment
by nihilandvoid June 17, 2008 10:32 AM PDT
hm... could you possibly have posted this due to the fact that Mozilla has planned to try to break the record for number of downloads in one day... with that day being TODAY?
Reply to this comment
by mhinnewyork June 17, 2008 10:57 AM PDT
Yes, although I meant to post it yesterday and didn't get around to it. Michael Horowitz
by ruminator June 17, 2008 4:10 PM PDT
to MH: didn't get around to posting this way important defensive article? What kind of defensive geek are you--did you want the universe to collapse into itself?
by declau June 17, 2008 10:33 AM PDT
Holding off?? nonsense! I have been running Firefox 3 beta on Windows and Mac OS X since January 08 down to the latest release canditate RC3. I even forgot that it was a beta until 2 days ago when I read in the news about the official release of 3. Runs smoothly and it's the most solid incarnation of the browser so far. It's a tremendous improvement ove Firefox 2. I'd say get 3 ASAP if you haven't done it already.
Reply to this comment
by boyCommaThat June 17, 2008 10:36 AM PDT
they totally didn't run it through beta periods and give people nightly builds to test. it's completely unstable. don't download it!!!!! OMGZZZZ IT WILL INSTALL A VIRUS INTO YOUR PROCESSOR AND YOURE COMPITER WILL SHUT OFF AND BEST BUY WILL HAVE TO SEND A TOP AGENT GEEK SQUADER TO YOUR HOUSE TO UNINSTALL FIREFOX3 AND REMOVE THE TROLLS THAT HAVE GATHERED AROUND YOUR HOUSE IN ANGER, THANK YOUS CNET!!!!

firefox 1 is BETTAR!!!! STAY STABLE, YALL
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About Defensive Computing

Michael Horowitz is an independent computer consultant and the author of several classes on Defensive Computing. He views Defensive Computing as taking steps, when things are running well, to avoid or minimize the inevitable problems down the road. It's about educating yourself to the level where you can make your own intelligent decisions about keeping your computers and data happy and healthy. If you depend on computers, yet are on your own, without an IT department or nearby nerd, this blog's for you. His personal web site is michaelhorowitz.com.

He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET.

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